[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I am here and I still have about six or something posts to read (ugh... it was some job to read it until now anyway), but that's already the training and all... I think I could post something after that (possibly, or maybe likely, I will get some inspiration when reading it... and that's something where Hilderinc definitely could figure...)

Anyway, a few notes to what's been discussed here before, even though I don't want to raise the matter again. I think it's good to have put the fuss around Groin's characters to rest and wait for his response, which I hope will come and I hope the situation could be solved in some good manner.

A few notes, though, to things I have noticed on the way:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I can understand Athanar has some problematic characters around for the sake of storyline interests, like Aforglaed; he could be a son of a fellow lord or something, or a promising youth in arms even if a bit "teen" for his manners, or something like that. Also I think Athanar could stretch for Scyrr if he is an exceptionally good soldier - actually I don't see any other reason why he would have Scyrr among his ranks (he seems to be a kind of a guy lord Athanar would have gotten rid off in the first possible moment) - so beware anyone of you if you wish to try him with your character, he's going to beat you all as he still hangs around...

First, I feel the need to step in for Scyrr here. Now if you read the posts both for Áforglaed and Scyrr (excluding Groin's last post, which I will speak about more below), I don't think they are really bad. I think they are open to interpretation, and whenever posting for Scyrr (as it had been really mostly me who was doing it), I was keeping him in lines of something Nogrod said on this thread just after Scyrr has been posted for the first time: something like "He's either rude... or maybe he's just straightforward about his opinions." Scyrr, in my vision for him (which left still 90% of him as blank spaces) was only this: slightly self-centered, not willing to see others' point of view and convinced that he is always in the right, and that those who are with "him" are always in the right (cf. his words to Hilderinc when there was this initial brawl: when the case was hushed up, Scyrr felt that the newcomers have been wronged, as it WAS the local soldier who had started the fight - i.e. did strike first - and Scyrr in his self-centeredness was just overlooking the fact that the soldier had been provoked. But that's all, I don't think that's any trait that would make him strikingly obviously wicked. Scyrr is also apparently blunt in his opinions, but certainly would watch his tongue when talking to his superior. And even if he was prone to not doing it, he would have learned by now that he cannot do it face to Athanar, if nothing else).

Same goes for Áforglaed - funnily enough, he may be even "worse" than Scyrr - but then, he seems a bit more "cowardly" (i.e. avoiding escalating the conflict if he can), which would explain how he would get away with whatever troubles he might cause. He seemed willing to admit his fault and accept consequences, if it meant saving him from something worse. He would be probably too afraid to dare to do anything too bad in front of the lord (and anyway, he does not seem to do anything evil by himself - more like "accidentally", or just by not watching his tongue enough etc).

Originally Posted by Loslote

Seriously, though, a place in the retinue of a nobleman, particularly one as important as Lord Athanar, would be an enviable position. No one with anything less than excellent credentials or character. Really, Aforglaed is toeing the line as to acceptable soldiers - he would have to be the son of a close friend of Athanar's (or Wynflaed's, I suppose).

The same goes for this. Now just let me see if you are not misinterpretating the poor people a bit I mean, what is so horrible about Áforglaed, too? He is certainly not a shiny example, he is perhaps a bit more negative than positive character, but still - only from what he has done this far - is he really that bad? I think maybe some of you have formed a box called "baddies" in your heads and after the guys have been thrown in there once, it's easy to label them as total baddies and interpretate all their actions in the worst way, but hey, the way I see them at least, they are not THAT horrible... I mean, they are negative, but not so that they would necessarily make me wonder how comes Athanar put such terrible people in his service... they are, to me, just "average bad soldiers, of which kind there are dozens"...

So that would be it for the "Apology of the Unknown Soldier" part... Although if Nog especially you think that the folks look weird from Athanar's POV, I would like to hear that, as the point is of course his perspective... but you didn't seem to protest in the beginning (quite the opposite) and they seem to have not changed (unless counting Groin's incident). Now on to another issue...

And that is the soldier whom Erbrand fought with (possibly killed). First, one general thing, which you might have figured out already if you were reading the above. In Groin's post, the soldier he wounded or killed or whatever was called "Scyld". Everybody on this thread has been hereafter talking about him as "Scyld". Of course. But from all that has been said in Groin's post and then also on this thread, I think he just meant Scyrr. Scyld is some soldier from the original Mead Hall, originally Firefoot's character, if I am not mistaken. Scyrr is this "bad" NPC guy of Athanar's household. Given that Erbrand said "I killed one of Athanar's soldiers", I assume Groin meant Scyrr, not Scyld.

That's just so to clear things up. Speaking of this, I would add a general reminder, as I have been thinking about something like that also a long time ago already. Whenever you are writing for somebody and you are not 100% sure about his identity, go and check the first page of the discussion thread. Most of the characters are described there (speaking of which maybe I, or somebody, could indeed make a bio also for these Áforglaeds and co. In any case, Scyld's bio is there if nothing else, so it should've been clear that he is not Scyrr).

And to the thing that has been asked here:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think it all depends on whether Groin wishes to continue writing this and then wants to take something back

Indeed I simply think we should go with that, like I said, and wait a while for Groin.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Actually I think now that if he doesn't wish to come back we should at least try to think how we could deal with it and not bother Pio. We can take the post as his last challenge for us to overcome together.

And what a challenge would it be! A murder and a get-away! Erbrand and Lithor would be declared outlaws by king Eomer for manslaughter - and making peace with the two groups would be much harder (it wasn't looking hard already?) as lord Athanar and those coming with him would now think the "original MeadHallers" as murderers... for a reason.

(...)

I can say readily that Stigend (and probably Garstan as well) would be appalled and reconsider what they thought of Erbrand... and looking at how Lithor behaved... also him. They had honoured them both but would now... well, reconsider to say the least.

How about the character's of you others?

(...)

Heh, a funny idea... is there a thing that brings people together better than a common enemy? No there isn't.

So could Erbrand and Lithor (and Scyld) work as scapegoats to all the possible rivalries thus uniting the people? It would of course not be as easy or straightforwards as that, but in the end that might be actually believable...

What do you think?

Well, not that it didn't occur to me when I read it, a swift party sent to pursuit of the two fellows, but then, I think it's a bit over the top. From my part, I would rather want to avoid that. Just lay it to rest. Although there will be simply this "legend of two deserters" and now that would probably really just contribute to differenciating opinions (if I sort of exaggerate it, the worst two extremes would be "You old-Scarburgians are murderers and deserters!" and "Erbrand and Lithor were an example of honourable resistance against oppression! To arms!"). If Groin does not come back or make some changes there, I would prefer some other solution. But I would like him to come back, firstly.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Maybe, but I think there's enough doubt in it that we can say Erbrand thought he was dead, but he turned out not to be. If I were one of the two women, I would not bring back the dead body of a full grown man. That would be tough, plus gross.

And indeed. In the question "so is the guy dead or not", I would think he is not: it seems like that from Groin's account, and by all logic - the women would not carry him in, but ran in yelling "there is a dead soldier" if he was in really bad condition. They'd even call for help probably if he was very badly wounded, but since there are two women bringing him back, it implies actually that he is able to almost walk, so actually his state won't be even that bad, I think.

But anyway all in all, this whole scenario with two people attacking each other like that seems a bit over the top to me from the beginning.