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Old 03-04-2010, 02:35 PM   #8
Faramir Jones
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White-Hand A lot to read!

Some very interesting comments on this article.

Bęthberry, you have a good point about the presentation of the article, including the use of the term 'fictionist', which is misleading, hence perhaps my quoting it only once. I fully understand your 'not trusting his use of language or his knowledge of the field'.

However, I would defend his reference to Tolkien as 'a classicist'. Tolkien did study Latin and Classical Greek in school, and won a scholarship to study such languages in Exeter College. While he later transferred to English, winning a First Class Honours, he was appreciative of his classical training. In his Letters, he said, 'I was brought up in the Classics, and first discovered the sensation of literary pleasure in Homer'. (Letters, Letter 213.)

In terms of your comments on the author's other essay, "The Music of the Spheres", I haven't read it, so won't comment on it.

While I agree completely that Tolkien took the term 'Middle-earth' from Ceadmon's Hymn, your term 'Victorian hit parade' is unfair on those three writers and their works. While Eden presented them badly, they have survived such bad presentations and worse...

I think that those of us who have commented so far agree about the significance of William Morris's influence on Tolkien, confirmed by the references in his Letters, quoted by Aiwendil. There are also the references to George McDonald, in particular in On Fairy Stories.

I have to say that while there are no references to Tennyson in the Letters, it was pointed out to me (so I can claim no credit!) that there are a lot of similarities between Bilbo's Last Song:

http://blue.carisenda.com/archives/j...last_song.html

and Tennyson's famous 1889 poem, Crossing the Bar, traditionally used as the last poem in collections of his work:

http://oldpoetry.com/opoem/2045-Alfr...ossing-the-Bar

I agree with you, Aiwendil, about Tolkien's style and taste changing, and your view that

the Victorian mediavalists exerted a strong influence over much of Tolkien's early writing (in particular the Book of Lost Tales and associated poetry), but I would say that this influence began to wane as early as the 1920s and was more or less gone (except, perhaps, unconsciously and very indirectly) by the time of LotR.

In one of his letters, Tolkien described his writing style in LotR. He gave a particular passage, and he then gave two different versions of it, one in medieval English and the other in modern English. He used this example to show that he aimed for a 'moderate or watered archaism'. (Letters, Letter 171)

My own view is that it was not just a matter of his changing style and taste; it was also a way of making it comprehensible to modern readers, who might otherwise dismiss it as a 'Victorian throwback' to Morris.

Last edited by Faramir Jones; 03-04-2010 at 02:37 PM. Reason: I needed to delete something
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