Nice to see that I started an interesting, long discussion!
I was interested to see what
Inziladun said here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun
What would Aragorn's response to Denethor pressing him on that have been? Perhaps something like 'The time was not yet right, Lord
Steward. I myself was not ready for the burden, nor had I yet earned it'. I suspect though, that no fair words or deeds on Aragorn's part would have reconciled Denethor to the idea of relinquishing his power and watching Aragorn
rule.
|
Aragorn, as Thorongil, sent a message to Ecthelion II when he left Gondor, after defeating the Corsairs of Umbar:
'Other tasks now call me, lord, and much time and many perils must pass, ere I come again to Gondor, if that be my fate.'
The big problem would be why he didn't stay to help Gondor, which was getting near its time of greatest need. Yes, Aragorn did return, but at a particular time that happened,
by a remarkable coincidence, to be one most favourable to him claiming the kingship.
You can see why Denethor was suspicious that Aragorn and Gandalf were plotting to put the latter on the throne of Gondor.
Also, Denethor's distrust of any other peoples, apart from his allies of Rohan, was based on a very good reason. What proper help had any of those other peoples given Gondor in the last number of centuries? Even if they couldn't give much military assistance, intelligence reports would have been useful.
There's also the fact that Elrond, when calling his council to decide on the fate of the Ring, made no effort to contact Denethor to send an envoy. (I know there was a vision that prompted Boromir to volunteer to go to Rivendell; but Elrond wasn't aware of that.) Surely the ruler of the main state opposed to Sauron was someone who should have been consulted?
It's been pointed out, including by
Formendacil, that Denethor despised Aragorn II's claim, calling him 'the last of a ragged house, long bereft of lordship and dignity'. While this was probably his true feeling, not just the product of his madness, I believe that this was probably shared by many Gondorians for generations.
As we know, Elendil ruled Arnor, with his sons Isildur and Anárion ruling Gondor, but accepting their father as overlord. With Anárion's death in the War of the Last Alliance, Isildur went north to take up the rule of Arnor, with his three eldest sons, and gave Gondor to be ruled by his nephew Meneldil, Anárion's son, the last of those born in Númenor before the Downfall to survive that event.
When Isildur and his three eldest sons went north, they and their army were attacked and killed by orcs in the Battle of the Gladden Fields in 2 Third Age. The only survivor of that branch of the family was Isildur's youngest son, Valandil, who had been born in Rivendell. Due to his youth, his mother acting as regent for eight years, he made no attempt to assert overlordship over Gondor. One can presume that Meneldil would not have accepted overlordship from a younger cousin who had succeeded in such circumstances.
While Gondor flourished for centuries, Arnor diminished. In 861 T.A., after the death of King Eärendur of Arnor, the kingdom was divided among his three sons. While the line of Valandil survived in the Kings of Arthedain, who later claimed lordship over all Arnor, Arthedain was conquered by Angmar in the reign of Arvedui, though something was retrieved with help sent from Gondor.
Arvedui had married Fíriel, daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor; and he made a claim to the throne of Gondor in 1944 T.A., after Ondoher and his sons died in battle with the Wainriders. The claim was in his own right as a descendant of Isildur, and in right of his wife, as last child of Ondoher. But the Council of Gondor refused this claim, saying that the succession was restricted to male, male-line descendants of Meneldil son of Anárion, instead offering the throne to Eärnil, a victorious general who had the appropriate line of descent.
It appears that they also did so on the grounds that the monarchs of Isildur's line were a line of losers, who had proved themselves incapable of holding on to their kingdom. The personal dislike of Meneldil to accept his cousin's overlordship had become a matter of policy.
This was also shown later, after Eärnur, the last King of Gondor, was captured, and the throne left vacant. There was no one of the line of Anárion who had an undisputed claim; so it was decided to let the Stewards rule Gondor as hereditary regents, which they did down to Faramir. It is interesting that there was no move to locate any descendants of Isildur, now reduced to being Chieftains of the Dúnedain. Perhaps it was Gondorian prejudice against a group of people, all of whom seemed to have done nothing except to reproduce and hold on to some family heirlooms, and who had not shown any ability to properly rule a kingdom.
Aragorn II was well aware of this, and knew that while his lineage made him a viable candidate for the throne of Gondor, he would not be a
serious candidate unless he proved himself, such as through a tremendous military victory over Gondor's enemies, as Eärnil II had done.