[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by cfwmac007

i believe the movie had a more accurate then people want to give. it is true both sauron and gandalf are maiar and so are balrogs and good ol' tom. sauron is far from the strongest of the maiar, but is the powerful in speech craft.

As I remember, in Silmarion Sauron is named the most powerful and dreadful servant of Melkor. Cant provide a quote, so may be I am wrong...

Originally Posted by cfwmac007

The istari are different than the other maiar that came to middle earth. The istari were limited to form of men and the powers that be found within the mortal world (talk about a handicap). Sauron does not have this limitation.

It doesn't look they were limited to that extent. They looked like men and they suffered like men; they were, however, so vigorous that could survive conditions that no man was able to, their life span looked unlimited. They could be killed, but this is the case for everyone in mortal lands. Like High Elves, they could see what happens in both worlds, I'm sure. In the end, it looks, they were not deprived of their inherent magic powers, but were strictly recommended not to use them unless they needed to save the day or themselves. Let me remind you Gandalf's fireworks at Weathertop and in Hollin, where he fighted against the Nazgul and wargs respectively. Another case is Gandalf's struggle with the Balrog in the Chamber of Mazarbul. That was perhaps the only direct encounter of two magic powers described in LOTR (though it doesn't happen in the movie); Gandalf described it with the words 'I have met my match' - even before he had learned it was the Balrog. And can you mention other man slaying a Balrog?

Istari were also advised not to attempt encountering the Enemy in person or becoming Lords to peoples of ME. I tend to think that apart from their bodily hardships all other restrictions Istari carried out themselves; for that reason they were capable of violating these limitations. In other words, Istari were not stripped of their inherent Mayar powers.

Originally Posted by cfwmac007

The witch king was the most powerful of the witches even before given one of the nine.

Was he? I thought he was the most powerful of kings and became a witch under the power of his ring.

Originally Posted by cfwmac007

The ring would farther augment his ablities. to me in the books when gandalf tells pippen about the prophecy that he, in his heavily handicapped form, he did not seem to sure himself if he could defeat the witch-king.

This is correct, but let's look at possible reasons. First of all, Gandalf would have never said 'I will win' before the battle was over. Simply because he was a wise one. Secondly, in accord with the limitations, imposed on Istari, he preferred to keep public unaware of his real abilities. Who would have taken seriously and watched closely strange activities of a nosy old man, the Master of Fireworks? His humility proved to be a perfect disguise; it helped, for instance, against the Balrog, who otherwise could have postponed a direct attack and would have probably tried to exhaust Gandalf by means of magic or used orcs' aid.

Thirdly, Witch King was a very difficult opponent not just because he wielded great powers, but because he was invincible for ordinary arms. Merry's sword was the only blade on Pelenor Fields which was able to undo the spell sealed in a ring (one of The Nine). I wonder if Pippin had a similar dagger but Gandalf couldn't have known anyway. That doesn't mean Gandalf was incapable of dealing with the sorcery. Four of The Seven were destroyed in dragons' fire; one of The Nine could have been destroyed similarly and I think, Gandalf was able to generate the heat he needed to penetrate the protection, even at the price of self-exhaustion. May be he would have found some other way, but not an easy one.

Things were even more ghastly at the moment of the encounter for two reasons. Gandalf definitely didn't wish to set Minas Tirith ablaze. Also Witch King was leading a huge army and could have easily find some aid, while Gandalf was alone and couldn't expect an honest single combat.

All this means Witch King was a perilous opponent for Gandalf. The actual fight, nevertheless, didn't occur in the book, and Gandalf prevailed by the means of counsel and encouraging. Neither does the fight happen in the film. Instead WK needs just one flash to throw Gandalf the White from his stead and break his staff - an efficiency that requires a power of Vallar if not Eru.

Originally Posted by cfwmac007

my biggest complaint was the lack of sam using the ring in the movies. in the book he uses the ring directly under sauron's nose, and sauron is none the wiser.

That's a good point.