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Old 09-11-2011, 05:17 AM   #8
Bêthberry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh View Post
I hadn't thought very deeply about it. The idea came to me as an afterthought at the end of my post. I think it's more likely that Tolkien identified a certain tendency in that direction in himself, although he was quick to deny it. This would explain his preoccupation with tollkühn, and his use of its anglicised form Rashbold in the Notion Club material at least twice (although it should always be noted that he was forever using translations of or punning references to his name in other languages). Certainly I detect an uncertainty at several points in his literary career over the rightness from a Catholic perspective of his continued sub-creation, which he may have sometimes seen as presumption. Such second-guessing tempts fate to say the least, so I preferred to leave the question open to suggestions. It seems unlikely to me, though, that Morwen embodies Tolkien's opinion of his own mother. If that were the case I would expect far more sympathetic a character, to judge by the references he makes to his parents in his published letters.
I would think that as well, about Morwen, although her pride and stubbornness is probably as strong as her son's and the story of multiple homes or residences and the dependence on others do have some echo in Tolkien's own life. Tolkien's actions "against willful pride, against action without counsel, against unilateral decisions"--as you wrote in the earlier post--strike me as being more significant, as it seems to me that so much of what he saw in his life came up against those very traits, in his personal life, in his professional life, and of course in the terrible historical events which he lived through in his life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiwnedil
To touch on another point that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread yet, one of the interesting things about the Turin saga (and there are lots of interesting things about it) is that it is a rare case where Tolkien, though somewhat grudgingly and disapprovingly, seems to have endorsed the game of 'source-hunting' - that is, of looking for literary or mythological antecedents to his stories and characters. In his letter to Milton Waldman he even names some sources himself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolkien
There is the Children of Húrin, the tragic tale of Túrin Turambar and his sister Níniel – of which Túrin is the hero: a figure that might be said (by people who like that sort of thing, though it is not very useful) to be derived from elements in Sigurd the Volsung, Oedipus, and the Finnish Kullervo.
The connections of these three characters with Turin seem pretty obvious once they've been pointed out: like Kullervo, Turin desires vengeance against his family’s enemies; like both Kullervo and Oedipus he is unwittingly involved in incest; like Kullervo he commits suicide after asking his sword if it is willing to kill him; like Sigurd, he kills a dragon by hiding underneath it and striking it from below as it passes.
It seems that the character whose story Tolkien spent the most time working on was also perhaps (in a sense) Tolkien's least original character. And yet, in a different sense, Turin is undeniably an original character, notwithstanding his explicit connection with those three sources. Here we have one of the best examples of Tolkien's ability to take myths and ancient stories and not simply to rework them or reinterpret them, but to use them as building blocks (and very solid building blocks they are) in the creation of something altogether new.
This passage from Tolkien's letter to Waldman is very interesting, particularly in light of what Tolkien has to say about sources in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.
Here's some of his thoughts from the essay on the medieval story:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolkien, "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight"
For it belongs to that literary kind which has deep roots in the past, deeper even than its author was aware. It is made of tales often told before and elsewhere, and of elements that derive from remote times, beyond the vision or awareness of the poet: like Beowulf, or some of Shakespeare's major plays, such as King Lear or Hamlet.

It is an interesting question: what is this flavour, this atmosphere, this virtue that such rooted works have, . . . . I am not concerned at this moment with research into the origins of the tale or its details, or into the question of precisely in what form these reached the author of this poem, before he set to work on it. I wish to speak of his handling of the matter . . . the movement of his mind, as he wrote and . . . rewrote the story, until it had the form that has come down to us. . . . His story is not about those old things, but it receives part of its life, its vividness, its tension from them. That is the way with the greater fairy-stories--of which this is one.
Given how closely some of his lines echo the Kalevala (particularly the lines where Turin addresses his sword), I would think that Tolkien in his letter might be attempting to minimise his debt or dismiss the significance of it. It would be ineresting to compare the dates of composition of the Gawain essay and the letter to Waldman.
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