[Galin]

Thanks Aiwendil!

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I'm not sure I entirely follow what your concern is here.

That's because I poorly explained part of my post

I was looking to get an opinion on the timing of the crossing, so that much worked out -- but my secondary reason to post the bit about the seven years was to show that Tolkien could, and did, basically give Sun Year indications of at least one thing 'within' a Valian Year (1497).

And so, when I ended with (which should not have ended that paragraph however, as it helped to confuse things): 'But I don't recall any notation that a new reckoning in Sun Years is begun before a full Valian Year had transpired. I merely meant: if 1500 is not a full 'year' why not mention this -- that is, why not note something similar to the short digression in GA concerning Feanor?

Now that's an interesting question. Both AAm and GA seem to say that the Sun and Moon first rose in VY 1500, but no indication is given as to when during that year this occurred. It does seem clear that the new reckoning in Years of the Sun began on the first day that the new lamps were aloft. If that happened at the very end of VY 1500 (i.e. just when the year 1501 would otherwise have started), then of course there would be a full 9.582 years between the start of VY 1500 and the start of YS 1. It might seem a remarkable coincidence if this were the case, but one might suppose that the Valar planned it that way.

That's what I was thinking, that it would be quite coincidental if it had not been planned. But if AAm is meant to read somewhat chronologically within this entry, it doesn't seem to end with the rising of the moon, which you note as well.

Alternatively, if the Sun and Moon were raised before the end of the 1500, then I suppose 1500 would be a short year - that is, less that a full 9.582 years of the Sun.

I posted this question on two other forums so far, and only got one other response (so far), but it was along the lines of VY 1500 being a short year. The response reads in part...

(...) but for what it's worth, my best guess is that the the Moon arose quite early in the year VY 1500.


This, I base on the Annals of Aman (AAm) where the last we hear before 1500 is about the creation of the Moon and the Sun and a description of Tilion and Arien (§172). Then we have the year marker for 1500 and the next paragraph, §173, starts by saying that ‘Isil was first wrought and made ready, and first rose into the realm of the stars, and was the elder of the new lights., as was Telperion of the Trees.’ Since this comes after a description of the making of the Moon and the Sun, it leads me to suggest that the year VY 1500 was quite short (less than one sun-year).


This of course also assumes that the narrative in the various annals are given chronologically also within each year (or block of years: the years from VY 1495 through VY 1499 are treated as one in the sixth and last section of the AAm, §§164—172), and I also assume that the descriptions in §§168 — 172 of the creation of Isil and Anar mean that this was mostly finished so that it was merely the making ready that remained that the turn of the year VY 1500.


Another way to go about it is to say that we have absolutely no indicators as to precisely when in VY 1500 Isil first rose, and so the average of all reasonable guesses is exactly half-way through — I honestly think that that is at least as good a ‘guesstimate’ as the one above.

So far I'm still musing on this... what do you think?