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Originally Posted by Inziladun
I've held off commenting here because I think I've made my thoughts on Túrin clear elsewhere.
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I get the gist; I'm tired of arguing about that one too.
But I'm not gonna give up on Morwen so easily
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I'll just say about Morwen that it's notable pride is seldom, if ever, depicted as a desirable trait in Tolkien's Arda. It has a great tendency to lead one to ruin. Just ask Denethor, the Witch-king, Saruman, et al.
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Well, although most time pride leads to ruin, I would still not be too general about the word "pride". There is "good pride" and "bad pride"***. "Bad pride" is the Saruman e al type: "I am the strongest! Smartest! Sauron is no match for me!" The "good pride" (or
better pride?) is more like Morwen's "I will not fall off my moral level". When Turin joined the Gaurwaith in their evil ways I wondered where did his pride go, because he seemed not to care that he was above the level of an orc.
Why do I feel like I'm turning into
Urwen?
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The precognitive feelings experienced by both Túrin's parents are, I would think, warnings to sent to them by some outside influence. But by whom? Ulmo? Was he trying to tell them to let Túrin stay in Dor-lómin, where he would likely have been taken as a slave? To take the road that seemed less hopeful? And what then? To see Túrin escape, meet up with Elves, and be his messenger to Gondolin? Did Ulmo want Túrin before Tuor? Both were sons of the only Men to ever set foot in Gondolin. That is all speculation, but I still find it intriguing.
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That's an interesting idea. But somehow I don't agree with it (big surprise...). I think that it's something internal. It's not the first or the last time that a name resonates for a specific person. But it is curious
in any case that Morwen speaks against Brethil and Hurin against Doriath - why doesn't either see
both? Perhaps it has something to do with their own fates - not their children's: Morwen died in Brethil and Hurin metaphorically died in Doriath (there he lost all that he had to live for; I don't believe that his specific actual deathplace is known, other than 'the Sea').
***An aside: English doesn't differentiate between the two, but Russian has different words for it, with clear good and bad connotations. It's hard to explain the meaning, but this is what the online dictionary says (though I don't entirely agree with it):
BAD PRIDE: the wish/goal to consider self the only and independant source of good
GOOD PRIDE: self-satisfaction in achieved work; self-esteem; knowledge of self-importance
It's hard to see the difference.... I don't know. I give up on the pride issue.