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Old 07-25-2012, 01:01 AM   #31
Belegorn
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
Belegorn has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumriken View Post
Remember how easily the white council chased him out of Dol Guldur.
Context makes it clear that, "their stroke was too late. For the Dark Lord had foreseen it, and he had long prepared all his movements; and the Ulairi, his Nine Servants, had gone before him to make ready for his coming. Therefore his flight was but a feint," [Sil, p. 375] So we have it that Sauron was already prepared to move. He was not forced out. It was but a feint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumriken View Post
I'm sure Glordfindel and Galadriel could take him on.
Sure they could have, but he too could have taken them on, does that make them weak for him being able to do so? It seems that you're implying because they could take him on he is weak. So flip the script. He can take them on can he not? Does that mean Galadriel and Glorfindel are weak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumriken View Post
Morgoth's creations. (Orcs, balrogs, fellbeats, nazguls
The Nazgul, Ring Wraiths, were Sauron's creation. Let's give Sauron credit where credit is due. He was a Maia under the Vala Aule, "In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people." [Sil, p. 26] and had skill in the crafting of things. When Galadriel's phial failed to work in Sauron's forge it is said, "the forges of his ancient might, greatest in Middle-Earth; all other powers were here subdued." [RotK, p. 247] Sauron gave the Elves of Eregion the knowledge by which they crafted the Rings of Power, and he crafted in secret the One Ring so that he could control the various people through them [Rings] with it. He ensnared the men, but was not able to get the Dwarves or the Elves who did not wear their Rings until Sauron lost the One. These creations of Sauron did have some power to their merit. It is said, "There are few even in Rivendell that can ride openly against the Nine" [FotR, p. 256]. Also of Glorfindel of who you speak so glowingly, "On foot even Glorfindel and Aragorn together could not withstand all the Nine at once." [FotR, p. 270] Sauron's servants, his creations so to speak. Further Gandalf says of the Nazgul, Sauron's creations, "For even the Wise might fear to withstand the Nine, when they are gathered together under their fell chieftain. A great king and sorcerer he was of old, and now he wields a deadly fear." [FotR, p. 308] So the Ring was a mighty weapon through which he created the Nazgul and gained control over men and should he regain the One Ring gain control over all the other peoples. I also believe Sauron had a hand in the making of werewolves, those fell creatures such as Draugluin and Carcharoth. "Sauron brought werewolves, fell beasts inhabited by dreadful spirits that he had imprisoned in their bodies." [Sil., p. 198] Also we have in the Song from which that was taken,

"Men called him Thu, and as a god
in after days beneath his rod
bewildered bowed to him, and made
his ghastly temples in the shade.
Not yet by Men enthralled adored,
now was he Morgoth's mightiest lord,
Master of Wolves, whose shivering howl
for ever echoed in the hills, and foul
enchantments and dark sigaldry
did weave and wield. In glamoury
that necromancer held his hosts
of phantoms and of wandering ghosts

of misbegotten or spell-wronged
monsters
that about him thronged,
working his bidding dark and vile:
the werewolves of the Wizard's Isle." [Lay of Leithian, v. 2064-2079]

Quote:
Put a weak morgoth against sauron alone and morgoth would easily win.
Put a diminished Melkor against almost anyone and he will overcome. Take Fingolfin. I do not think you would go around saying Fingolfin is weak for it however. Why you hating on Sauron? lol
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Last edited by Belegorn; 07-25-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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