[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

In the book Gandalf refers to Sauron in his mastery of the rings as "He who holds the Seven, and the Nine" (the seven dwarven rings, and the nine mortal). I get the "nine" part but, since three of the Dwarven rings were destroyed before Sauron could get his hands on them again, why is Gandalf still counting them? Gandalf presumably knows the rings were destroyed since he makes mention of Dragon fire as being one of the possible ways the One ring could have been destroyed (at least, could have if any dragons of sufficient caliber were still left, which there aren't) Yes Sauron WOULD be the master/holder of all seven rings if they were still extant, but they aren't. And since that statement occurs AFTER the council, Pippin would probably ALSO know about the destruction of the three (the history of the ring would likey have also contained mention of what had happened to the other rings, if for no other reason that someone else (Gimli, possibly since he would be the most versed in Dwarf History) making the same melting suggestion. and Gandalf can't be including the elven three in the count since 1. Sauron doesn't hold them and 2. Even if he did, Gandalf would not lump them together (He would say "the holder of the Three, and the Four, and the Nine")

Thanks to the kindle search facility I think it ia actually Galadriel who says this. Gandalf seems to always qualify that the seven are not all extant. In context I think Galadriel means he has control of all available of the seven and the nine but not the three and one. To start talking of the four would beclumsy I think and since the focus of the sentence is Sauron not the rings I think it is fine.