[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Galin

I distinctly remember being told HME was off topic in the Silmarillion forum when I first arrived 'there', but I guess that could have been someone's opinion of what the forum should be for, admittedly. But it hardly matters much if I am wrong about that... for myself, I interpreted Inziladun's comments to be about the frustration of not having at least one place where the 1977 Silmarillion could be discussed without sidetracking and debate due to HME and other sources.

For your own statement the forum that had a Silmarillion forum may have not had it only for Silmarillion material, despite what you were told when you arrived there. Therefore I still know of none among all the many Tolkien forums past or present which lays or layed any rules on speaking from any of Tolkien’s texts, save that they should be discussed in the proper place.

This forum has far places places than most, but seems none the worse for that.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for Inzadadun’s frustration if it means limiting free speech. He or anyone may start a forum on a topic and say that he wants the discussion to only concern matters in The Silmarillion. But the forum as a whole, as with all Tolkien forums, so far as I am aware, allow almost any discussion of anything save for legal reasons or for reasons of the discussion being felt unsuitable for young people.

That has always been the case in this forum, which indeed even as a set for threads called The New Silmarillion dedicated to creating a better Silmarillion.

But that said I was focusing too much about matters like orc origins for example -- as I can at least understand the frustration from some when threads which merely mention the idea of Orcs possibly being made from Elves [Eressean theory published in the constructed Silmarillion of course] get sidetracked into a HME based orc-origin thread. Especially if the person starting the thread, for instance, now could not even participate in a HME based side topic.

That Orcs were created from Elves is simply stated in the published Silmarillion. Not much room for discussion is there? I can understand that some people do not like what Tolkien said on many issues, but that is simply the breaks. Perhaps they might like what Tolkien said in other places better, but Inzadadun doesn’t want this other material to be mentioned.

Also, I have to admit that for me getting sidetracked is not really a problem. As you say, read and respond to those things you want to read and respond to. I once started a thread that quickly went a wholly different way [with respect to what I wanted to discuss], but really there was nothing stopping me, or others, from continuing to post about the 'orginal topic' in the very same thread; and if no one else was interested... oh well, that's the way it goes sometimes.

Exactly.

About Galadriel, my attempt at reconciling the matter is to make Galadriel refer to crossing 'mountains' in Beleriand, then joining with Celeborn in Doriath [the 'West'], all in the First Age. If so I think this even agrees with the constructed Silmarillion reference that you pointed out -- except that I admit it is a bit odd for Galadriel to mean she crossed the mountains of Beleriand [Ered Wethrin perhaps], and not only that, but before the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin, when she would have done so before these realms were even established -- going by her seeming history according to the 'phase' of the early 1950s anyway!

The sole mention I made to The Silmarillion is the statement in chapter 14: “But none of the Noldor went ever over Ered Lindon, while their realm lasted.” That is very straightforward. My point was that even the accounts in the second edition of The Lord of the Rings do not agree between the accounts in the Appendices and Galadriel’s statement in Fellowship.

That people get frustrated with some forums is normal. But the answer to that is not putting down rules which prevent referring to particular works, except for obvious things like in this forum the book discussion should cover mainly books not films and the film discussions should cover mainly films and not books.

If a poster refers to something an interested reader doesn’t know about, the reader can always ask about it. If posters are referring to HoME material that the reader does not care about, the reader may always remark that the material doesn’t interest them and say why it doesn’t interest them.

Note that a statement that the reader simply accepts or rejects any material will probably usually seem very uninteresting to me without more information.

It would be far more frustrating when a reader’s query has an obvious answer but the answer is in HoME and one is not allowed to cite it because HoME is thought to be too difficult for the reader to understand.