Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen
I think elves would regard Luthien's shapeshifting etc as magic, for want of a better word whereaa the Loriennelves don't see their rope in that light. It is just a higher t3chnology. For example I have just seen the trailer of the film Rush. The flame retardent materials that have come in since Nikki Lauda's horrific injuries would have seemed magical not many years earlier.
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Hmm, I am not sure if the use of expression "higher technology" is good here. Since "technology" in Middle-Earth, in the strict sense of the word, of course means real inventions, which are often unpleasant in nature (Saruman's devices or reputed torture devices and weapons devised by goblins). Although the word "technology" would be appropriate, I agree, in certain way in relation to the First-Age craft such as the Silmarils or the Noldo-lanterns, or even the Palantíri, which seemed to be depending on "technology" which was later forgotten or unable to recreate for lack of resources (in the case of Silmarils). But when it comes to Elven cloaks, Galadriel's Mirror, or other similar things, I think somehow we shift into the realm of "magic" in the sense of "art". "Art" is something "natural" rather than "invented" - or maybe not "natural" but "inborn", a virtue one possesses. And the "Elven Art" was, like
Belegorn had correctly mentioned, reserved to the Elves. Humans are simply not born with it, they cannot alter their surroundings the way Elves do. Or so I would say.
And as for Lúthien, hers would be - if it came from the Maia heritage, which I am not at all certain about - simply a "higher level of Art" for the Elves, just like the Ainur in general perform higher form of Art than the Elves (in fact, the highest - the Music itself! Can there be a higher form of Art?). As long as it stays that way, it is Art. (Evil human sorcerers, and so on, such as the Mouth of Sauron or the Witch-King, of course performed
sorcery, and Galadriel speaks quite clearly to Sam about the difference between "elven magic" and the enemy's lies and sorcery. But that's a completely different topic.)
So in my opinion, to get back to the Elven "magical tools", we have two different things: art of technology, such as the Silmarils or Palantíri, which Men simply could not make because they did not have the time in their lifetime to invent something like that - that has been mentioned earlier. But "Elven magic" which Sam wished to see so much (and which we could find, I imagine, in the Elven cloaks and possibly the Elven ropes), that is beyond human limits as well, but for different reason - simply because Elves are different from Men. The point about "sub-creators" by
Belegorn was very correct, in my opinion.
As for Dwarves, I think their art goes closer to "secret recipes". I can imagine humans being able to figure it out (or reproduce it if they had been told about it - maybe that was what took place at some point in Dale, in a few rare cases?), but again, they would lack time, but also resources, patience, and the depth of the knowledge in the beginning. "Average" Men, I would imagine, weren't "made" for Dwarven way of thinking. It was, after all, rather "aulëan".