Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55
I have to admit I don't really understand what the word "relate" means, not only here but in a more general way too. Is it that you don't think you'd have done the same or felt the same? Or that you don't understand the character? Don't like the character? I think that you don't have to feel close to the character to understand him and like him, even though you might disagree with him. I like Turin, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start acting like him. I was going to lead this to something else, but I lost my thought, so I'll just stop rambling...
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I would basically say that what I imagine under "relate" is more or less a summary of what
NogrodtheGreat had said (seriously, I almost wrote "Nogrod" as abbreviation, that wouldn't work.
NTG?
NG?).
There are several levels on which I can approach characters I "like/relate to" in fictional works. I can "like" many characters in the way that I find them, let's say, "cool". In my case, for example, to use a simple example, Sauron (especially his First-Age appearance, when he is not just "phantom menace"). Very intriguing character, but obviously, I would totally disagree with his worldview (which, from the little we know about him, would seem to be concentrated on utter power-hungry egoism). They can be also characters I simply like because they are wearing cool clothes or they are Elves or whatnot. That's actually the case of most films and similar media, because the plots can't usually (by definition, if the film has two hours, unless it's a psychological drama focused wholly on a single character) explore the characters so much that it would give you more grounds for "liking" characters, certainly not to the point which I'd call "relate".
Then there are characters I "like" and I can relate to their inner conflicts, which is sort of the thing that
NTG mentioned about the Game of Thrones characters. I often like these characters the most of all. There is for example Saruman (who certainly used to be THE top LotR character for me for a long time) or for comparison, Cersei in GoT. I can relate to their weaker sides and feel empathy with them in their dilemmas, I also pity them and see the moments or things that led them the downward spiral they ended up in, the opportunities wasted (Saruman's repeated chances of redemption
so close, but always refused), and so on. I feel empathy with the moments where they felt "rightfully" neglected (Cersei not being appreciated enough simply because she was a woman and being basically "sold" to a random man; with Saruman, it is actually mostly his own fault because of his own pride, e.g. feeling jealous of Gandalf and therefore instead of offering his best to cooperate, becoming focused on his own ego and demands), but I do not applaud their actions or consider them good role models or such, and there are many things they do which are outright disgusting (torture, making of Uruk-hai, warmongering).
And then there are characters who can serve as role-models in some way, because they embody something that I feel awfully lacking in real world and they express those things in the form of a story, which makes it more accessible and adaptable for a human reader or listener. Mercy. Courage to stand against the odds. Selflessness, even sometimes up to the point of practically ending dead in some Mordor. They do not need to fulfil the criteria of the first two - I don't, for instance, find Frodo "cool", because he doesn't have the Black Arrow nor is he a guy who created a new race of Orcs, but the "coolness" is after all a superficial thing (I like the Uruk-hai, but if I think about it on a deeper level, what is there about them to like?). But I can find in Frodo the qualities I appreciate and he can be sort of a "role model", especially since even in LotR, no matter how epic it is, the heroes are not superhumans (mostly) and the good does not win in shiny armour, because that's not realistic, but through doubts, even despair, and that is realistic.
Nonetheless the tale is not depressing even though the doubts and despair are present, because ultimately the good wins, even though much is lost. But that does not happen in Túrin's tale, and that's why I don't like it as much. (Similarly, but that's of course personal, I don't find Túrin neither cool, neither likeable enough, and most certainly not "relateable", because he is, as the Isengarders like to say, a fool. He is not a "proper" hero because he is arrogant and basically ruins everything he touches. The part I love, however, is when he's with the outlaws - especially in the beginning, that is the most "human" part of him and where I can even relate, because he serves as the "voice of reason" among the band of, effectively, bandits. But then he follows more the Saruman and Cersei-path: he starts walking the downward spiral, even though it isn't his own fault but he is forced by the circumstances. One could however imagine a person could have acted differently, less hot-headedly, for instance.)