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Old 12-30-2013, 11:01 AM   #164
cellurdur
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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Originally Posted by Belegorn View Post
So? Before that Sauron took out Finrod and Beren [The Lay of Leithian; 2167-2214]. Why should his fighting with Elendil make a difference that the two of them defeated Melkor's greatest servant?
Physical battle is not the only indicator of power. Curufin could capture Luthien, but she was leagues above him in power. Nor did Sauron take out Finrod and Beren by himself in armed combat. How can you say having the help of a very powerful Numenorean Lord like Elendil did not matter?
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I never said it does, but you did say Glorfindel was, "an elf of great power and a Balrog slayer". My point is that there were other Elves of great power who also slew Maia, and obviously there are those who did not slay any Balrog who are of great power.
Only three elves ever slew Maiar. Gil-galad worked in tandem with Elendil. The difference between Glorfindel and the others is that he became MUCH more powerful afterwards.
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How are you going to argue that, "Defeating a foe in a physical fight does not mean you are his or her equal in power" when I mention other Elves and their battles with Maiar, but you continue to say Glorfindel is "a Balrog slayer" as if it qualifies more with him?
A great deal of power is needed to fight a Maiar of any sort and that is only three elves were able to do so, but defeating someone physically does not mean you are of equal power. Power is not just physical, but also spiritual. Galadriel the mightiest of the elves, who remained is still not likely to be able to defeat Gil-galad in a battle despite being a great warrior herself. Not all power is used just for fight.
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I disagree with you taking that to mean Glorfindel was the strongest.
It is not a definitive statement, but it implies he was. Added with the all the other bits then he seems to be the most powerful.
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By that logic as the head Elrond is the most powerful, stronger than even Gandalf who is not at the head. I'm not sure that sitting in a position of honor necessarily makes reference to one's power compared to all others.
I never said it was a reference to power alone, but also a place of honour. Elrond as Head of the House would have the head seat. Other indications that Gil-galad was the most powerful is that he is given command of the forces of Rivendell.
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Again I disagree with you. Evidence says that Galadriel "was the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth" [Sil., Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, p. 270] When did Sauron personally attack Imladris?
That would be great except Glorfindel did not remain in Middle-Earth. He died, repented and was greatly enhanced before being sent back alongside the Istari to fight against Sauron.

EDIT
Some further quotes about Glorfindel.

He talks about how Glorfindel being a hero of the first age would be suited to come back then says this.

"This supposition would indeed explain the air of special power and sanctity that surrounds Glorfindel."

After talking about his reincarnation.

"We can thus understand why he seems so powerful a figure almost 'angelic'."

Talks about his friendship with Gandalf and then once more mentions his power.

"he appears as specially concerned for Gandalf, and was one (the most powerful, it would seem) of those sent out from Rivendell..."

Last edited by cellurdur; 12-30-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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