Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurthang
Does anyone besides me find it rather ironic that the men who accepted the rings from Sauron became more powerful than elves?
Now, it is generally assumed that on a normal day elves are more powerful than men. Not necessarily in strength, but in will, magic, skills, and vitality. But, the men who were consumed by the nine were different. They almost gained more from their 'transformation' than they lost.
One perk is that they became invisible. This would come in handy for eavesdropping  , but it also creates a good fear tactic and would be useful in combat. They became semi-immortal. They could not die, and their spirits would always remain even if they were defeated, so they never could truly be defeated.
Due to these changes, it seems to me that the Nazgul became more powerful than the average elf. They were seduced by their rings(which is bad), but ended up more powerful than before(which is good for them, bad for everyone else). Which brings me back to the beginning. Doesn't that seem like its backwards? |
Hi everyone,
I remember reading that "...Elves do not fear them" (ringwraiths), though I can't for the life of me cite the quotation and place it to someone, though, I recall encountering the quote when looking up Annatar, the Ost-In-Edhil and history of Elves and Sauron. The nub of it was that Elves--already in two worlds at once--are either immune, or more resistant to the fear effects of the Nazgul--(and this bit we know from many precedents, including what was said about Glorfindel, for example, and what occurred when he assisted Frodo).
I've been trying to fathom what, exactly, it is then, that defines the core difference between Nagul in the wraith/spirit world and Elves when they are in that realm. Icy touch, death stares and so on don't come with the Eldar when they go into their 'fey' form. So, I don't believe the key difference is about 'good versus evil' Spirits, though this is implicated, somehow.
I'm wondering whether there is some variation on the channelling of Spiritual Energy through the Spirit Realm, in the very metaphysical 'organisation' of the flesh of the two distinct kinds of Spirit beings. Recalling, here, that Morgoth and Sauron were pervertos who got lustful and greedy about messing with Eru's and the Valar's Music of Creation, ergo Orcs from Elves, for example. Blarogs (beings of Shadow and Fire) and what Gandalf said to the Balrog, in a metaphysically significant comment: "I am a wielder of the Secret Fire". Some kind of stepping up to the plate, to match Mr Balrog's 'shadowy' version of 'metaphysical fire'. Presumably, 'Secret Fire' meant something to do with, perhaps, Eru's 'flames in the void' sort of thing.
If I had to think of 'metaphysical dimensions' to collapse to make a ringwraith, I'd be channelling a perversion of the Spirit Flame thing Eru goes on about. One that drains Life from the (mortal) body and replaces the flesh with Shadow Fire/Spirit, or that fortifies the lifespan by being a big 'power sink' syphoning the energy of life into the Undead being. A variation of the Elven Spirit world, but one that is life draining, c.f. life sustaining. I've often imagined that when one of the Nine used the Ring, before transmuting into Undead, some part of their Mortal essence was drained away into Sauron, while, instead, Sauron's mental and material presence grew in the man. I recall reading that the Nine, when they were not yet fully altered, grew unable to tell the difference between a thought that was theirs, and one of Sauron--until their Wills were one and the same, basically. This event is very 'Sauronic' and very much how the literature implied how me operated. For example, when he discorporated when the Ring was Unmade, all his Orc legions were basically free of his will. The Sauronic presence was about how he could permeate through Nature and Beings.
To support the idea of 'life draining' or 'Spirit Fire that syphons life--wraith', I cite their opposite in their 'Elviish' variant: The Three Elven Rings that, inspired by Celebrimbor seeking to manifest a 'minivalinor' in Middle Earth, basically, seemed to extend what happened in the Elven body, over a dominion or place, without violating life force or will of others (Lothlorien. Galadriel's capacity to stop 'fading' and to bear a variation of what occurs in Valinor to Middle Earth). The Silmarils, the Phial of Galadriel, the Two Trees, the Elessar, and so on, were all artefacts that were not just 'bright lights' but were, somehow, living lights radiating with 'life itself'--the eternal flame.
Cheers
Irviniel (Imrahil's older sister. She's not very happy with the 'boy prince' thing and decided to stomp her foot and make a realm for herself
)