[Ivriniel]

Hi there Galin, how r u?

Originally Posted by Galin

Well, apologies but I must get external with respect to this idea as a given

This ousting of Galadriel comes from a text called Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn in Unfinished Tales, which wasn't finished by JRRT [never mind not being published by him], and contains certain ideas that were revised later [Amroth as Galadriel's son, for instance] and others that in my opinion were arguably abandoned or revised...

Yes. But.

[Some of the] materials about Galadriel were amongst the last JRRT worked on. Chris also notes in UT that his dad wrote some stuff about Galadriel a month before his death. Seems to me that meant that Tolkien had some new thoughts about Galadriel that were missed by older materials. For example, the stuff he wrote a month before his death was the materials quarantining her from responsibility of Feanor's lead on the kinslaying, her and Celeborn (Teleporno) fighting valiantly with the Teleri (though Celeborn's lineage, elsewhere places him as a descendent of Elmo, bro to Elwe and Olwe, and this lineage links Dior, by marriage, to Elmo's brood, and so to Elwing, meaning Celebrian and Celeborn were related to Aragron (Elros) and also Arwen (Elrond). So, Gala and Celeb snatch a Telerin boat, and wander off to Middle Earth, roped in to the Ban thing, by implication, but arrived ahead of her "...unfriends forever..." Feanor (I had to say, I always chuckle when I re-read that stuff about Galadriel snubbing relative Feanor, and so the two were "unfriends forever".

Lineage matters shunted sideways, Chris notes that Galadriel's stuff is amongst the latest emendations to other materials and in fact, post dates LotR. There is the implication that Amroth is Galadriel's son (as you noted), for example, which post dates LotR.

... like [again in my opinion] Galadriel as co-founder and co-ruler of Eregion. And thus [if so] there was/would be no need for her to be ousted from power at this point.

On this point about Galariel's and Celeborn's migration out of Beleriand, end of FA:

Galadriel and Celeborn had in their company a Noldorin craftsman named Celebrimbor. [He is here said to have been one of the survivors of Gondolin, who had been among Turgon's greatest artificers; but the text is emended to the later story that made him a descendant of Feanor, as is mentioned in Appendix B to The Lord of the Rings …and more fully detailed in the Silmarillion (pp. 176, 276" (p. 235, Unfinished Tales, 1980, Allen & Unwen , Hardback Ed)

That quote more goes to why version I of the Elessar, Enerdhil and all that don't square well with later emendations.

Chris notes that Galadriel and Celeborn were not mentioned in founding of Ost-In-Edhil but--the (late) essay on Galadriel and Celeborn states

Although it is not stated that Galadriel was present when Annatar arrived (1200), "He perceived at once that Galadriel would be his chief adversary and obstacle, and he endeavoured therefore to placate her, bearing her score with outward patience and courtesy" (p. 237) and Sauron "…worked in secret, unknown to Galadriel and Celeborn and to seize power in Eregion" (p. 237) "So great became his hold on the Mirdain that at length he persuaded them to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and to seize power in Eregion" (p. 237) between 1350 and 1400 "Galadriel thereupon left eregion and passed through Khazad-dum to Lorinand, taking with her Amroth and Celebrian" (p. 237)

This places Galadriel and Celebron in the fray and how the revolt against them was orchestrated.

Bad boi Annatar comes in and stirs the pot around 1200 then

But in the meantime the power of Galadriel and Celeborn had grown, and Galadriel, assisted in this by her friendship with the Dwarves of Moria, had come into contact with the Nandorin realm of Lorinand on the other side of the Misty Mountains (p. 236)

So, the founding of Laurelindorenan and all that appears to have happened some time after 1200 and before 1695 SA (Because it was Gil Galad that gives her Mallorn seeds, gifted to him from Numenor [The seeds wouldn't grow in Lindon], this also implies a second-age-ish concept for the founding of Lorien, after Lorinand). I note that materials about Amroth and Nimrodel place Amroth as ruler of Lorien until -- much later -- (I have a headache ) around 3434, SA! Man--that's like really off tap Tolkien--we are talking a discrepancy of about 1000 years!!!!

Also, Christopher Tolkien thinks The Elessar was probably written at about the same time as Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn,

Yes

... but what came first, this chicken or this egg? And if The Elessar came first, how do we know the circumstances that were imagined behind Galadriel residing in Greenwood when Olorin visited? Christopher Tolkien states that possibly the reference to Galadriel living in Greenwood is related to the refrence in the first edition, in the tale of years of the Second Age, Appendix B:

My point is more that Olorin-out-of-the-West, munching on Lembas and sipping Miruvor with Galadriel [a cross, Elf, booted out from the Ost-In-Edhil] in Lorinand appears to have occurred between 1200 and 1695 SA. Given the Istari rocked in 1000 TA, this implies the Olorin option as a pre-Istari visitor is theoretically possible. In that version, he comes chatting to Alatariel.

Did he bear the Elessar? (resuming focus on the two in-text, versions, deliberately divergent where "...only the wise..." (UT) know which is true.

A 'bottom line' synopsis with five points:

1. the joo joo argument. Elessar I was Nenya-ish, and greened an area in Beleriand on the coast, before passing West over sea.
2. But, Silmarillion replaces that with the effects of a Silmaril.
3. In any case, in story two, Celebrimbor (I think it's reasonably clear as he the Feanorean, not the jewel smith of Gondolin) makes a second. This jewel is 'clearer' and more 'subtle' but less powerful. Morgoth's influence on the Sun from the Void.
4. Aragorn's Elessar doesn't make Valinorish things happen in a region. It's power is limited. Thus
5. This makes Olorin's gift to Galadriel less likely.

I think that Celebrimbor's change to a Feanorean made him ruler of Eregion from the start, and the former concept of Galadriel being ousted to Lindorinand had vanished [along with the question raised by CJRT]. And if I recall correctly, it was Nerwende who had introduced her son to Lindorinand in the earlier concept, thus giving her a measure of 'family ties' to a place where she could later flee to with the revolt of the Mirdain...

... but again, Amroth as Galadriel's son was certainly abandoned according to Christopher Tolkien, and taken together with the [arguble at least] implication of the descriptions from WPP, what JRRT published about Celebrimbor in the 1960s as well, personally I think this notion was later abandoned.

Not sure I agree. Though, points 1 to 5 don't draw heavily on which way I go with this last bit.