[Galin]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Then let me once more attempt to re-simplify the matter. The idea of Men growing slower than Elves is not just found in Laws and Customs. The Children of Hurin, which is actually published as a complete story and edited to fit also has this notion. Sador may be wrong, but his information is supported elsewhere.

'for in their first youth the Children of Men and Elves seem close akin. But the children of Men grow more swiftly and their youth passes soon; such is our fate.'

As far as I'm aware this section of the Narn was written in the later 1950s, thus it would not be surprising if it seems to agree with Laws And Customs.

:shrug:

Ultimately as you yourself have done prior, I give precedent to actually published stories over notes, unless there is a clear mistake which Christopher Tolkien later clears up.

Distinction: generally speaking I give precedent to texts or stories published by Tolkien himself. And with respect to posthumously published writings, I generally give latest date [if known] heavy weight.

But each scenario has its own considerations.

I don't have the Vinyar Tengwar and know the full context of that quote.

In my opinion there is nothing else in the fuller context to change the meaning of the citation I posted above. I didn't re-read the whole text again today, but as far as I recall the growth of Elves is here more of a sidenote with respect to the rest of the text.

It's a brief, late statement, but notable.

We do have the essay in Morgoth's ring which is Tolkien's most extensive work on the subject and it is corroborated by Sador's words.

Yet the consideration that Laws And Customs is more extensive than something else in no way means a different idea cannot replace it, so not only do we still have both citations to unsimplify matters [not one text taken as a 'given' for example], but various opinions about how to weight posthumously published material.

As for the 3,000 years that seems to have been a disregarded idea, because considering the time frame we have, then the fourth generation descendants of Finwe like Idril would not be born before the rebellion.

I will look up things and write more in depth later.

Are you using 144 Sun Years to equal 1 Valian Year? And even if you are, can we be certain Tolkien was not going to adjust any dates in the already existing annals, to help make certain new ideas work better?

And anyway the idea from Vinyar Tengwar is certainly later than the notion of 3,000 years -- which itself was written in the same general 'phase' as L&C.

I think things remain more complicated than before