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Old 05-22-2014, 08:53 PM   #5
Zigūr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotrelf View Post
Isn't he saying that Frodo would have had to take the same way, instead Frodo would have taken the same way? And if he wouldn't have done(sacrificing himself), he would have failed completely.
Yes, hence why I said in my original post that Frodo would have cast himself into the Fire if he wasn't enticed to leave the Sammath Naur. Professor Tolkien is saying that casting himself into the fire is the only thing Frodo could have done in his Ring-influenced state of mind if he didn't want Sauron to get the Ring back, but it's not necessarily what he would have done. As I said, he might have been deluded enough to go back outside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
It has to do with Frodo's possible motivation for throwing himself in with the ring, had he done so. in the scenario he puts out (and that Tolkien's letter seems to insinuate) the destruction of the ring becomes less about destroying the ring and more about doing whatever is necessary to keep Sauron for being able to get it.
Exactly. Motives are important. Professor Tolkien is not a consequentialist, which is to say that he does not believe that the ends justify the means. His villains often do have that belief - Sauron and Saruman are perfectly content to use force to bring about their respective visions of an ordered world. The Professor takes it a little further, however. The motive is important too. Thus in this scenario the Ringbearer is destroying the Ring as the only way of "keeping" it and spiting Sauron, who would inevitably take it from them otherwise, and that is an evil motive, because the motive is only to not forsake this evil thing and to harm a rival for its possession. The motive is not to save the people of Middle-earth. So even though the outcome is the same as voluntarily destroying the Ring (which is actually impossible) the motivation here derives from the evil inspired by the Ring itself, which engenders only possessiveness and not pity for the suffering of others.
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