Sorry for being not entirely crystal, Bill. It was the Maciejowski Bible picture sword I was referring to as a panzertetcher. Afraid I can't quite remember where I remember this from, if you take my meaning. I do think I read about this sword in reference to the picture you showed. I'll have to rack my brain and get back to you (though I do think you get +1 vs armour in certain wargames rules for using one though [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ).
Ah, it was Big Alf who made those forts, makes sense, and I do take your point that they weren't very defensible. I suppose you could think of them as the bailey of a motte and bailey castle, which were originally generally earth and timber until the later Normans and Plantagenets got round to rebuilding them in stone.
On the battle topic, I think this goes into the subject of the 'ritual' of ancient battles. Often the opposing forces would meet in a nice flat field to do battle against one another, sometimes it was even pre-arranged and in a 'battlefield' where previous battles had taken place (for example the Norse in Ireland). Similar things used to go on in the Pacific Islands last century apparently. However, sometimes armies didn't 'play the game'. For example, the Welsh didn't have the money to spend on armour and warhorses, so ambushed the Saxons and Normans whenever they could rather than fight a 'pitched battle'. I'd guess Saruman preferred to take any advantage rather than indulge in the stylised tactics of our earlty medieval period.
Obviously my personal opinion on Edoras, but I'd always imagined it very clean, (in a sort of Scandinavian way if you know what I mean) well ordered and architecturally more impressive. I'd agree that the film portrayal was far closer in terms of historical veracity. Didn't someone say that a medieval king could be distinguished from his subjects because he was the only one not covered in muck? (I Bowdlerise of course [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )
Aragorn = Oliver Cromwell, very worrying, does he develop warts? I also had a chuckle at the silly hat, though its amazing what people did wear down the ages, look at the Landschnects!
Ah-Ha, fouind my Panzerstecher reference, but obviously I was a talking rubbish, because its a stabbing sword rather than a cutting one - doh!
The Estoc
A form of long, rigid, pointed, triangular or square bladed and virtually edgeless sword designed for thrusting into plate-armor was the estoc. Called a stocco in Italian, estoque in Spanish, a tuck in English, Panzerstecher or Dreiecker in German, and a kanzer in Eastern Europe. They were used with two hands and similar to great-swords (but were unrelated to later rapiers). They were used in two hands with the second hand often gripping the blade. Some were sharpened only near the point and others might have one or two large round hand guards. Rapiers are sometimes mistakenly referred to as tucks, and there is evidence that during the Renaissance some rapiers may have been referred to as such by the English. In French "estoc" itself means to thrust.
[ March 13, 2003: Message edited by: Rumil ]
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Rumil of Coedhirion
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