On page 300 of
Morgoth’s Ring (Home II) Christoper Tolkien prints a short article entitled “
Note on Dating” in which he discusses his guesses on the chronology of the texts printed in “The Later
QUENTA SILMARILLION (II)”. I don’t see reason in printing out the whole thing but will summarize. Christopher Tolkien dates all the material to 1957–59. In particular he finds the text called
Laws and Customs among the Eldar and Chapter 6(–7) of the
Quenta Silmarilion were typed on a “new typewriter with a rather distinctive typeface” upon which the first letter that he knows to be typed by his father was dated January 1959. Both of these texts mention Ælfwine.
I have mentioned this previously, but you have have once posted and once implied that a sole example of Ælfwine was found. For my mentions see:
See pages 208–09 for the mention of Ælfwine in Laws and Customs Among the Eldar which is in the chapter with the page heading “The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II)”. On page 225 occurs the notation, “So spoke Ælfwine.” On page 257 Tolkien in another later essay under the same page heading includes a footnote from Ælfwine about Míriel Sirende.
If
only a sole reference had been found that would still be sufficient to show that at that time Tolkien still thought Ælfwine to be valid.
The source is in
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...2&postcount=35.
You are wrong that I misunderstood a mention of Tolkien’s publication the
Lord of the Rings for a mention of his creation of it. If I have done so in anything I have posted, that is not something I have done in these posts in general. Posting inaccurately is something I try not to do, though I sometimes fail to live up to it.
The last three chapters of “The Later
QUENTA SILMARILLION (I)” were written by Tolkien later than the first five chapters and
after the amanuensis typescript was made. Christopher Tolkien dates the amanuensis typescript to 1958. In this later manuscript (dating to 1958 or later), there is, in chapter 6, a footnote purportedly by Ælfwine in which he mentions Bryde Míriel. There is also a footnote about Orcs attributed to Ælfwine in chapter 7. In his summary of chapter 8 Christopher Tolkien compares a similar passage in AAm to the
Quenta Silmarillion and makes it clear that AAm here mentions Ælfwine, but he does not clarify whether or not the
Quenta Silmarillion also does at this place.
Note that I do not discuss anywhere the earlier potions of LC 1, which Christopher dates to 1951, or discuss the contents of the later amanuensis typescript as it is simply a copy of the 1951 text.
Christopher Tolkien makes it quite clear on page 47 that he dates
The Annals of Aman to “the large development and recasting of the Matter of the Elder Days that my father undertook when
The Lord of the Rings was finished (see p. 3)”, and I am aware of this. But on page 3 he does not specifically mention it save when the says that
The Annals of Aman (not dated at this point) were a close companion work to the
Grey Annals. And he does not indicate when this “development and recasting” ended. He never, so far as I know, actually dates
The Annals of Aman, save in part on page 191 when he questions which was earlier: the portions of
The Annals of Aman then being worked on or the corresponding chapters 6–8 of the
Quenta Silmarillion. He concludes only that he cannot decide but “that the two texts were closely contemporary.”
This dates the portions of the
Annals of Aman, against which Tolkien was writing, about 1958, Of course the early sections of the
Annals of Aman could be earlier, even much earlier.
The only mention of “Ælfwine” in the
Annals of Aman are to a quotation about Ælfwine’s opinion of the creation of the Orcs including some words attributed to “Pengoloð”. See §127. This passage is mostly omitted in the typescript including the mention of Ælfwine and in any case this passage is probably early. Later in the
Annals of Aman §172 occurs the footnote “* Marginal notes against
Arien and
Tilion: ‘dægdred Æ’ and ‘hyrned Æ’” in which I assume that Æ stands for Ælfwine, and so does Christopher Tolkien in his comment.
You will find portions of what I type above repetitive. I wanted to include everything because, possibly because of my previous wording, you seem to have misunderstood some of it.
Your point never stood. I don’t accept it and have given my reasons. Do you
still not understand?
Christopher Tolkien does not definitely date
any of the passages I have discussed from “The Later
Quenta Silmarillion (I)” or “The Later
Quenta Silmarillion (II)” to before 1958. The one mention of Æ in
The Annals of Aman is dated about the same time as the last three chapters of the Later
Quenta Silmarillion (I), close to 1958, possibly even later.
I never claimed otherwise, never. You have no reason to complain about this.
Not at all.
No thanks.
That’s good.
That was bad behavior and I apologize for it again: I apologize, for it again, Arvegil145.
I daresay it is.
Hello, Arvegil145.
No problem. I was being unreasonably snarky, and I apologize.
That explains everything. I knew you normally posted using non US-keyboard values where appropriate.
Good advice.
One of the most intelligent persons, or perhaps the most intelligent person, I ever knew had Slavic parents. She was Alexandra Kiceniuk and contributed to my book
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-M.../dp/0905220102.
I agree. It is fun when a discussion opponent is too stubborn to admit he is wrong, but perhaps I should just not respond to William Cloud Hicklin at all.