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mark12_30 · 08-03-2002, 11:14 AM

Mithadan's original question was whether it was a curse or a prophesy-- but it is called a "Doom". The Doom of the Noldor. Tolkien used the word "Doom" to mean "Destiny". In other words, Mandos was now speaking the "Destiny" of the Noldor.

I wonder if this was one place where a thread, or Melody, of the Music of the Ainur simply came clear for Mandos to see and hear, and he understood it, and knew their "destiny", and spoke it.

Is it also a curse? When someone speaks your destiny and it's a negative one ("Mortal, you will surely die!"-- true enough for all of us) it sure sounds like a curse. But I don't suppose it need be. It could simply be an acknowledgement of what will be. To me a curse is causing evil by turning bad spiritual power against someone (or perhaps similarly, removing good spiritual oower from someone, so that the evil spiritual powers fill the resulting void.) But I do not think that Mandos caused the evil. I think he foresaw it.

Doom = Destiny. So... in choosing between curse and prophesy, I guess I vote for "prophesy", then.

--Helen

08-03-2002, 11:14 AM	#20
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Mithadan's original question was whether it was a curse or a prophesy-- but it is called a "Doom". The Doom of the Noldor. Tolkien used the word "Doom" to mean "Destiny". In other words, Mandos was now speaking the "Destiny" of the Noldor. I wonder if this was one place where a thread, or Melody, of the Music of the Ainur simply came clear for Mandos to see and hear, and he understood it, and knew their "destiny", and spoke it. Is it also a curse? When someone speaks your destiny and it's a negative one ("Mortal, you will surely die!"-- true enough for all of us) it sure sounds like a curse. But I don't suppose it need be. It could simply be an acknowledgement of what will be. To me a curse is causing evil by turning bad spiritual power against someone (or perhaps similarly, removing good spiritual oower from someone, so that the evil spiritual powers fill the resulting void.) But I do not think that Mandos caused the evil. I think he foresaw it. Doom = Destiny. So... in choosing between curse and prophesy, I guess I vote for "prophesy", then. --Helen __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.