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Old 10-12-2003, 03:15 PM   #23
Legolas
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I was not discussing whether the Mouth was the lieutenant of Barad Dur, that much is obvious. I was discussing whether he was now the lieutenant of the whole of Sauron's forces which his statement suggests he is.
As to Khamul. He was the highest power at Dol Guldur when there were no military activities going on. None of the Nazgul save the Witchking were trusted with commanding armies.
Therefore we have this plus the statement of the Mouth himself to suggest that Sauron would have made the Mouth his 2nd in command.
Khamul was trusted as leader of Dol Guldur whether he commanded Sauron's army or not. He was in charge there.
You missed the point - if the Mouth of Sauron was higher in rank than these two Nazgul, he would've been in charge of Dol Guldur or Minas Morgul instead.

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I was discussing whether he was now the lieutenant of the whole of Sauron's forces which his statement suggests he is.
The Mouth had an obviously exaggerated opinion of himself.

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without the will of Sauron behind him.
This would be an important part of the quote - it doesn't mean that the other Nazgul had no power to command the armies at all...Sauron would put his will behind them in a later attack following the Witch-King's fall.

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This is proven by the fact that when the Witchking died the command of the army of the Pelenor fields passed to Gothmog. Whom we know little about but since Tolkien only states 2 Nazgul names (the Witchking and Khamul) it is reasonable to assume he is something else.
I don't think he was a Nazgul either - in any case, Gothmog was stationed at Minas Morgul specifically and would've stayed there and been in command when the Nazgul were out as they were during various points in the novel. There had to be someone else behind running things, and since he was there all of the time and the regular commander was out of action when Gothmog is mentioned, it is reasonable to deduce that he would've been able to motivate or command the troops, at least to some extent, that were so familiar with him. The troops were more frightened of the Nazgul than anything - this does not keep Sauron from putting them in positions of the highest leadership.

Also, nowhere does it state the Mouth of Sauron had the initiative to command the armies.

[ October 12, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]
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