Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55
This statement doesn't quite sit right with me on the ground of the assumption that Iluvatar's "permission" or assistance was needed to cast the curse. Morgoth, like all of Eru's creations, has his own free will and is free to execute it. If the Valar can create a sense of blessing, or help people out in little (and even not so little) ways without applying to Eru each time - why can't Morgoth do the same? Or is the implication that Eru ought to have "blocked" this particular curse, as it infringed on the free will of Men - one of the fundamental essenses of his creation? But Morgoth's curse doesn't take away their free will, it just influences the outcome. Turin and co. are free to act however they choose. But Men only choose the action, not the outcome. So no contradiction. No reason why Morgoth's ill-attention can exert the same effect of ill-luck as the Valar's positive attention creates a cloud of "good luck" and protection.
You made me think though about what sort of "out" Turin might realistically have had. Though many of his specific choices and words might be questioned, the general theme that runs through all his seeming "outs" is a choice between fighting Morgoth and living a relatively quiet and obscure life... and Turin cannot but rise up to fight Morgoth, wherever he may be. Pridefully or humbly, rudely or politely, but Turin will always eventually steer towards the path of putting himself up as Morgoth's opponent - and I think this is what opens him to the effects of Morgoth's ill-will. The bigger deeds you stir up, the bigger the consequence of disaster. And of course how easy to identify yourself as Morgoth's target when you draw his attention on the battlefield in any case. Turin's best option might have been to clear out a field or two to plow and live off his farm, a quiet and humble and sheltered existence. But he could never do that. He could not let go of his hatred for Morgoth, for what has been done at the Nirnaeth and in the subsequent years during the occupation, not to mention the ancestral hatred he inherited by his upbringing even during the peaceful years. Turin could not keep his head down and rest, knowing he had so much strength of mind and body and yet not lifting a finger to battle Morgoth in this most direct way. This brings me to an interesting thought. Perhaps Turin's true escape from the curse would have been in forgiving Morgoth. Forgiveness as a means of becoming unreachable to ill-will, and finding his own peace. There is a certain fan-fic which explores a similar idea with Beren, but I think it's even more interesting with Turin. |
First of, and no offense, but can you split your posts into paragraphs - otherwise it's just a giant wall of text?
Second - I don't think that 'living a small life' would be an out for Turin - by the time such a thing was even possible, word would reach out to Morgoth and the rest is 'history'...
Third - no, Morgoth is not supposed to be forgiven, Morgoth is supposed to be eliminated from existence...