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William Cloud Hicklin · 08-24-2024, 11:30 AM

I would be careful about overstating the power and utility of Osanwe, although some sentences in the essay could be interpreted that way. More important, I think, are Tolkien's comments about limiting factors, together with the fact that in the only two times in LR we see Osanwe in use, those factors are very much in play.

When the Council members have their last meeting in Many Partings before the party splits, Tolkien makes much of their eyes glancing from one to the other, which ties in to the essays statements about what we migt call "conversational" range. At the other end, we have the incident on Amon Hen, where despite the congruent amplifying factors of affinity, authority and urgency, nonetheless at long distance only conveys a simple imperative, "Take it off!"

I don't think we can treat it, like PJ does in the movies, as if the Noldor and Istari are carrying around mental cellphones with which they can dial up their friends for a chat.*
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Now, wrt Cirith Ungol, Tolkien has set us rather a puzzle. On the one hand, he tells us that messages go "faster than anything can fly", which certainly implies a Palantir- except that for convcersations two palantiri are needed. (Maybe the T.C.U. Orc-yeoman holds up a big chalkboard at Sauron's appointed scanning time?). More likely, the communication would be vis a Nazgul's connection to Sauron, but it's unclear how really that might work, unless it's an inherent property of the Nine. We do know that Frodo was captured on March 13th, but the report only reached Sauron on the 15th - the day F&S escaped; in fact they had to dodge the Nazgul sent to investigate (A BR could fly the distance from B-D in under an hour). Shagrat took two days to reach B-D with the mithril shirt after the escape. Which would imply that, notwithstanding Gorbag's comment, that in this case the messages went to B-D on foot. We also have to take into account the fact that from the 10th onward the Nazgul were busy, and mostly in Gondor.

*To this I would add the observation that if Osanwe worked that way, the Noldor of Valinor - surely the most skilled practioners among all eruhini - would have had no reason to make the palantiri

08-24-2024, 11:30 AM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,329	I would be careful about overstating the power and utility of Osanwe, although some sentences in the essay could be interpreted that way. More important, I think, are Tolkien's comments about limiting factors, together with the fact that in the only two times in LR we see Osanwe in use, those factors are very much in play. When the Council members have their last meeting in Many Partings before the party splits, Tolkien makes much of their eyes glancing from one to the other, which ties in to the essays statements about what we migt call "conversational" range. At the other end, we have the incident on Amon Hen, where despite the congruent amplifying factors of affinity, authority and urgency, nonetheless at long distance only conveys a simple imperative, "Take it off!" I don't think we can treat it, like PJ does in the movies, as if the Noldor and Istari are carrying around mental cellphones with which they can dial up their friends for a chat.* ---------------------------- Now, wrt Cirith Ungol, Tolkien has set us rather a puzzle. On the one hand, he tells us that messages go "faster than anything can fly", which certainly implies a Palantir- except that for convcersations two palantiri are needed. (Maybe the T.C.U. Orc-yeoman holds up a big chalkboard at Sauron's appointed scanning time?). More likely, the communication would be vis a Nazgul's connection to Sauron, but it's unclear how really that might work, unless it's an inherent property of the Nine. We do know that Frodo was captured on March 13th, but the report only reached Sauron on the 15th - the day F&S escaped; in fact they had to dodge the Nazgul sent to investigate (A BR could fly the distance from B-D in under an hour). Shagrat took two days to reach B-D with the mithril shirt after the escape. Which would imply that, notwithstanding Gorbag's comment, that in this case the messages went to B-D on foot. We also have to take into account the fact that from the 10th onward the Nazgul were busy, and mostly in Gondor. To this I would add the observation that if Osanwe worked that way, the Noldor of Valinor - surely the most skilled practioners among all eruhini - would have had no reason to make the palantiri __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.* Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 08-29-2024 at 01:30 PM.