Thread: Ambarkanta
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Old 06-29-2025, 03:18 AM   #36
Arvegil145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcusCalion View Post
Tolkien explicitly says an intervention of Eru would be necessary for that reading, and then declines to ever give that reading credence. It seems untenable to assume it when he did not take the explicit chance to confirm it, rather treating it as unlikely. Basically he's saying 'that scenario would take a miracle.' Which is to say - it is unlikely to be the case.

As to the reading of the footnote I am genuinely unsure how your interpretation can be taken from his words. Taken as a continuous text, with the footnote absorbed into the main flow, it reads:


he says the direct words SHOULD mean that he was thrust from Ea entirely, BUT that this would require a miracle (for which he implies there is no evidence) and thus it MAY refer INACCURATELY to his thrusting from Arda into the wider spaces of Ea SINCE Men were inclined to conflate the two in casual speech and concept.

I see no way in which this can mean he is implying that Men are claiming he is sent to space. His whole contention is that the 'texts' of the lore itself was a Mannish tradition, thus he uses the Mannish misconceptions to solve apparent contradictions in cosmology and science, such as this one.

I've since found another text which is more explicit about Morgoth being thrown out of Ea:

Quote:
The Valar listened to the pleading of Eärendil on behalf of Elves and Men (both his kin), and sent a great host to their aid. Morgoth was overthrown and extruded from the World (the physical universe).
- Letter 297 (August 1967), p. 386 (bolded part is my emphasis)


This is a very late text (1967), and there's no ambiguity here (the 'World' is capitalized, and at any rate clarified as meaning 'physical universe' in the parentheses).
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