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Snowdog · 10-30-2025, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthien-elvenprincess

Merry and Aragorn speak more of these people in the Flotsam and Jetsam chapter in The Two Towers. Aragorn calls them "half-orcs" and mentions that there were many of them at Helms' Deep.
Later, in the Scouring of the Shire chapter, the hobbits see more of them in The Green Dragon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagastly

Sorry it took so long, but I found some reference to him in Unfinished Tales . As the Nazgul were hunting for the Ring they had just departed from speaking with Grima Wormtongue and headed north from Isengard.

Quote:

But some fugitives on the road they captured; and to the delight of the Captain two proved to be spies and servants of Saruman. One of them had been used much in the traffic between Isengard and the Shire, and though he had not himself been beyond the Southfarthing he had charts prepared by Saruman which clearly depicted and described the Shire. These the Nazgul took, and then sent him on to Bree to continue spying; but warned him that he was now in the service of Mordor, and that if ever he tried to return to Isengard they would slay him with torture.

Another version of the story is unfinished (thus Unfinished Tales !) and is therefore summarized by Christopher Tolkien in the notes:

Quote:

ome while ago one of Saruman's most trusted servants (yet a ruffianly fellow, an outlaw driven from Dunland, where many said that he had Orc-blood) had returned from the borders of the Shire, where he had been negotiating for the purchase of 'leaf' and other supplies. Saruman was beginning to store Isengard against war. This man was now on his way back to continue the business, and to arrange for the transport of many goods before autumn failed. He had orders also to get into the Shire if possible and learn if there had been any departures of persons well-known recently. He was well supplied with maps, lists of names, and notes concerning the Shire.

This Dunlending was overtaken by several of the Black Riders as they approached the Tharbad crossing. In an extremity of terror he was haled to the Witch-king and questioned. He saved his life by betraying Saruman. The Witch-king thus learned that Saruman knew well all along where the Shire was, and knew much about it, which he could and should have told to Sauron's servants if he had been a true ally. The Witch-king also obtained much information, including some about the only name that interested him: Baggins. It was for this reason that Hobbiton was singled out as one of the points for immediate visit and enquiry.

The Witch-king had now a clearer understanding of the matter. He had known something of the country long ago, in his wars with the Dunedain, and especially of the Tyrn Gorthad of Cardolan, now the Barrow-downs, whose evil wights had been sent there by himself. Seeing that his Master suspected some move between the Shire and Rivendell, he saw also that Bree (the position of which he knew) would be an important point, at least for information. He put therefore the Shadow of Fear on the Dunlending, and sent him on to Bree as an agent. He was the squint-eyed southerner at the Inn.

I'm not sure why, but when I first read Lord of the Rings in the summer of 1975, my mind's eye saw Saruman 'experimenting' with orcs and Dunlendings and coming up with various different 'orc-men'. Some were more orcish and had certain qualities from men, like resistence to sunlight and a sturdier build (the Uruk-Hai), and some were more mannish with certain 'qualities' of orcs. They still were men in appearance, but certain features were orcish, like the 'sqiunt-eyed southerner'. I imagined he had all sorts of 'mixes' of orcs and men bred for various duties. This of course is just my mind 'seeing' it as I read it, embellishing the words with imagination.