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***Mithadan*** · 12-27-2000, 01:52 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 396</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re: Did the Valar make a huge mistake?

The Valar's "decision" to "abandon" Middle Earth cannot be considered separately from the Summons to the elves. After Morgoth assaulted the Lamps, the Valar: (1) worked to prevent Middle Earth from coming apart; (2) retreated, regrouped and fortified their new dwelling in Valinor; and (3) forebore attacking Morgoth because the coming of the elves was expected. The decision to abandon Middle Earth did nor really occur until the Valar (hastily) assaulted Utumno and Summoned the elves. Their other option would have been to return to Middle Earth, in whole or in part, and tutor the elves in the lands where they belonged. This decision may not have been "preordained" by the Music. In Morgoth's Ring, there is a brief discussion held between Manwe and Iluvatar in which Eru questions the wisdom of summoning the elves to dwell in Valinor.

Would the elves have faded faster? Why? Men had not yet come. Would they have been less glorious? Perhaps. But some may have voluntarily gone to Valinor, others would have been taught by the Valar, and Middle Earth would have been the better for it, having both the elves and greater attention from the Valar. The decision of the Valar could be characterized as selfish and lazy. Valinor was beautiful, they wanted the elves to live there and fixing up Middle Earth would have been a lot of work.

A recurring theme in JRRT's work is the "Fall", i.e. the failure of individuals or whole races to live up to their potential, to follow the right path, or to attempt to be other than they should be. Examples: the marring of Feanor; the rebellion of the Noldor; the fall of Numenor; the corruption of Saruman; the withering of Denethor; and even Frodo's failure to cast the Ring into Orodruin. The result of such a "fall" is always disasterous to the persons involved. The Valar's failure to take up the reins of the governance of Middle Earth and leave the elves where they belonged was such a fall; one which wove the history of the following three ages. (Religious connotations are unavoidable here I guess but it is not my intent to turn this into a discussion on theology) Alternatively, could this "fall" (if it was one and I obviously think it was) have been attributable to Arda Marred? Were even the Valar affected by Morgoth's infusion of his power into the world?

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

12-27-2000, 01:52 PM	#8
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,393	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 396</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Re: Did the Valar make a huge mistake? The Valar's "decision" to "abandon" Middle Earth cannot be considered separately from the Summons to the elves. After Morgoth assaulted the Lamps, the Valar: (1) worked to prevent Middle Earth from coming apart; (2) retreated, regrouped and fortified their new dwelling in Valinor; and (3) forebore attacking Morgoth because the coming of the elves was expected. The decision to abandon Middle Earth did nor really occur until the Valar (hastily) assaulted Utumno and Summoned the elves. Their other option would have been to return to Middle Earth, in whole or in part, and tutor the elves in the lands where they belonged. This decision may not have been "preordained" by the Music. In Morgoth's Ring, there is a brief discussion held between Manwe and Iluvatar in which Eru questions the wisdom of summoning the elves to dwell in Valinor. Would the elves have faded faster? Why? Men had not yet come. Would they have been less glorious? Perhaps. But some may have voluntarily gone to Valinor, others would have been taught by the Valar, and Middle Earth would have been the better for it, having both the elves and greater attention from the Valar. The decision of the Valar could be characterized as selfish and lazy. Valinor was beautiful, they wanted the elves to live there and fixing up Middle Earth would have been a lot of work. A recurring theme in JRRT's work is the "Fall", i.e. the failure of individuals or whole races to live up to their potential, to follow the right path, or to attempt to be other than they should be. Examples: the marring of Feanor; the rebellion of the Noldor; the fall of Numenor; the corruption of Saruman; the withering of Denethor; and even Frodo's failure to cast the Ring into Orodruin. The result of such a "fall" is always disasterous to the persons involved. The Valar's failure to take up the reins of the governance of Middle Earth and leave the elves where they belonged was such a fall; one which wove the history of the following three ages. (Religious connotations are unavoidable here I guess but it is not my intent to turn this into a discussion on theology) Alternatively, could this "fall" (if it was one and I obviously think it was) have been attributable to Arda Marred? Were even the Valar affected by Morgoth's infusion of his power into the world? --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.