[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

I can't see it as a 'price' being exacted in that sense at all. The creation & survival of Gondolin was essential to the ultimate destruction of Morgoth, both in the fear & uncertainty it created in his mind & in the fact that it provided a safe haven for Tuor & Idril to marry & have Earendel.

But therein lies the rub. The very existence of a place which he cannot find must have made Morgoth even more determined to find and destroy the place, and when he does find it, he brings all his might to bear on it. That is a risk that Turgon must have been all too well aware of. Gondolin was on borrowed time from the beginning. The Elves who lived there, who included a great number of Sindar, were incredibly vulnerable.

Again I have to say (and how tired I am of saying it ) that of course Gondolin was where Earendil was born and so of course it had to exist..... The essential tragedy is that the vast majority of the population of Gondolin would be slaughtered and it was inevitable that they would be slaughtered. I would like to hear what was said in The Halls of Mandos by those who did not survive. This is the cruel side of Tolkien's world, that so many are put to the sword in order that others may live. But I do wonder if these people may have been saved, as Turgon was said to have become overly proud of his city and even though warned to evacuate, he did not.

Originally Posted by davem

The fierce loyalty Turgon inspired shows that he was in no way considered unreasonable or unfair by his people.

But as shown in what happened with Aredhel, it only took one single person to dissent for the whole house of cards to come tumbling down.

Originally Posted by davem

I can't see that Eol was all that deserving of respect or of being listened to - he was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work who showed no respect to others, & started laying down the law to Turgon. If 'pride does come before a fall' I think that would apply more to Eol (in more ways than one )

Eol and Turgon are very similar in terms of pride. One resents the incomer who represents a 'conquering power', the other is too proud to listen to what is said and why it might be said in anger. I don't know that we can say Eol showed 'no respect to others' as we only know him in relation to his family and to Turgon; the Dwarves seem to accord him with a great deal of respect so we can also guess that he was not always 'a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work'.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Eol had more or less willingly entered Turgon's realm. That alone gave Turgon come claim over him. Besides, you can hardly condone murder, even if the culprit is a foreigner.

And, don't forget, Turgon was inclined to spare Eol until his silly sister died.

It is a situation that is badly handled by Turgon. In his urgency to maintain the secrecy of Gondolin he loses his head when dealing with this unexpected situation. He welcomes Maeglin (who in his turn is undoubtedly tempted to stay because of the sight of Idril), he tells Eol that he will have to stay. Eol chooses death for his son and himself and Aredhel throws herself in the way. The situation escalates rapidly as Turgon begins by issuing an order, not by listening. I have no doubt that what is paramount in his mind is keeping Gondolin safe and not trying to assess the situation. This is something he did not anticipate, and he again fails in not considering all the risks of the situation he has bound himself and his people to.