The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Psychological depth in Tolkien's characters

**lindil** · 11-17-2003, 08:37 AM

Lost One: I do have an ancient and battered 'Master of Middle-Earth' which I have not read in ages. Time to dust it off...

Eurytus: As the tenor of the debate has been officially 'encouraged' to change, I will leave you with what I posted above. If my several posts [not too mention the other many other and better responses] do not succeed in pointing you in a new dirction re: Psychological depth, then alas, nothing else I can say will have much hope of doing it either. The same must be said for the Galadriel issue addressed above. If you do not see the intimate and to my mind indisoluable bond between character and that characters innate power then there is probably nothing I can do to explicate it. I want to apologize to you however for letting my personal reactions go beyond what is civilized or useful to conversation. That was unbecoming of any poster especially a mod.

Several others have also taken issue more or less with me on the 'multi-source to see the whole character issue'. I did not mean to imply that one could not read the LotR and not get 'the core' of it, clearly you can, and I am sure we all did, before ever opening up the posthumous books, but I do think much remains undeveloped or only hinted at in certain characters [Galadriel being an obvious one - Elrond's commitment to interacting with and councilling with all races is also put in much greater contrast after sdeeing the whole picture of oft re-curring Elven isolationism] and especially in certain preceeding/parallel themes [Ring and Silmarills], involvment of Valr/Istari etc. All of these while in many ways not directly 'character issues' come to inform our understanding of everyline the characters speak in the LotR.

So the LotR goes from [imo] deep and splendid when read alone, to far, far beyond what anyone else either has done or probably could do [given that JRRT's most unusual natural abilities with language combined with an extremely classical education and his personal experiences with War and, romance and Catholicism/Theology, when read in conjunction with the voluminous posthumous writings.

Dave M: your point re: Faramir is excellent, and to me it points to one of many subtle 'variables' continually in use by JRRT that I think accounts for the wonder and warmth of heart mixed with longing and sorrow that many readers feel is not to be found anywhere else in the realm of fiction or modern literature.

In a sense the characters serve as vehicles to see the world anew, just as Frodo feels the power of the Elven ring at work in Lorien. Pure [and truly white] magic for some of us.

[ November 17, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

11-17-2003, 08:37 AM	#59
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Lost One: I do have an ancient and battered 'Master of Middle-Earth' which I have not read in ages. Time to dust it off... Eurytus: As the tenor of the debate has been officially 'encouraged' to change, I will leave you with what I posted above. If my several posts [not too mention the other many other and better responses] do not succeed in pointing you in a new dirction re: Psychological depth, then alas, nothing else I can say will have much hope of doing it either. The same must be said for the Galadriel issue addressed above. If you do not see the intimate and to my mind indisoluable bond between character and that characters innate power then there is probably nothing I can do to explicate it. I want to apologize to you however for letting my personal reactions go beyond what is civilized or useful to conversation. That was unbecoming of any poster especially a mod. Several others have also taken issue more or less with me on the 'multi-source to see the whole character issue'. I did not mean to imply that one could not read the LotR and not get 'the core' of it, clearly you can, and I am sure we all did, before ever opening up the posthumous books, but I do think much remains undeveloped or only hinted at in certain characters [Galadriel being an obvious one - Elrond's commitment to interacting with and councilling with all races is also put in much greater contrast after sdeeing the whole picture of oft re-curring Elven isolationism] and especially in certain preceeding/parallel themes [Ring and Silmarills], involvment of Valr/Istari etc. All of these while in many ways not directly 'character issues' come to inform our understanding of everyline the characters speak in the LotR. So the LotR goes from [imo] deep and splendid when read alone, to far, far beyond what anyone else either has done or probably could do [given that JRRT's most unusual natural abilities with language combined with an extremely classical education and his personal experiences with War and, romance and Catholicism/Theology, when read in conjunction with the voluminous posthumous writings. Dave M: your point re: Faramir is excellent, and to me it points to one of many subtle 'variables' continually in use by JRRT that I think accounts for the wonder and warmth of heart mixed with longing and sorrow that many readers feel is not to be found anywhere else in the realm of fiction or modern literature. In a sense the characters serve as vehicles to see the world anew, just as Frodo feels the power of the Elven ring at work in Lorien. Pure [and truly white] magic for some of us. [ November 17, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.