The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - *A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin*

Tar Elenion · 07-26-2001, 04:07 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 120</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Comments, suggestions, and cavils.

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Quote:
I don't think we need to delete all the material on differences of Elves and Men. Refer to The War of the Jewels (HoME 11), "Quendi and Eldar", under Sindar:
Quote:
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In general the Sindar apear to have very closely resembled the Exiles, being dark-haired, strong and tall, but lithe.
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In this late writing Noldor are still "lithe", that is slender. Lets try this:
Quote:
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{'Tis written that in those days the fathers of the fathers of Men were of less stature than Men now are, and the children of Elfinesse of greater growth,} Yet was Tuor taller than any that stood there{. I}, though indeed the [Gondolindrim] were not bent of back as some of their unhappy kin became, labouring without rest at delving and hammering for M[orgoth], but {small were} they were < QE strong and tall, but> slender and {very} lithe. They were swift of foot and surpassing fair; sweet and sad were their mouths, and their eyes had ever a joy within quivering to tears; for in those times the [Noldor] were exiles at heart, haunted with a desire for their ancient home that faded not. But fate and unconquerable eagerness after knowledge had driven them into far places, and now were they hemmed by M[orgoth] and must make their abiding as fair as they might by labour and by love.
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One has the very tall, burly Man compared to the Elves who come out before the city to meet him, some of whom are also tall, but not as tall as Tuor, who are also strong, but more slender in build. (Turgon is taller than Tuor presumably, but he is waiting at the palace.) The end of the passage reminds the reader of the situation of the Noldor in Gondolin, as here seen by Tuor, and so I think worth keeping.
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The 'but lithe' seems to be refering to the Sindar in comparison to the Noldor. That is the Sindar are more lithe than the Noldor. JRRT greatly changed his mind on the differing statures of Elves and Men. In Lost Tales Tuor was taller than the Elves, but when reading the updated versions this is no longer present. I will post on a seperate thread a comparison of the statures of Elves and Men as JRRT changed them in his writings.

Tar-Elenion--------------------- I will come with Fire and Sword, and put your cities to the Torch, your men to the Blade, your women and children in Chains</p>

07-26-2001, 04:07 PM	#69
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 358	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 120</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Comments, suggestions, and cavils. ------------- Quote: I don't think we need to delete all the material on differences of Elves and Men. Refer to The War of the Jewels (HoME 11), "Quendi and Eldar", under Sindar: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In general the Sindar apear to have very closely resembled the Exiles, being dark-haired, strong and tall, but lithe. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this late writing Noldor are still "lithe", that is slender. Lets try this: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- {'Tis written that in those days the fathers of the fathers of Men were of less stature than Men now are, and the children of Elfinesse of greater growth,} Yet was Tuor taller than any that stood there{. I}, though indeed the [Gondolindrim] were not bent of back as some of their unhappy kin became, labouring without rest at delving and hammering for M[orgoth], but {small were} they were < QE strong and tall, but> slender and {very} lithe. They were swift of foot and surpassing fair; sweet and sad were their mouths, and their eyes had ever a joy within quivering to tears; for in those times the [Noldor] were exiles at heart, haunted with a desire for their ancient home that faded not. But fate and unconquerable eagerness after knowledge had driven them into far places, and now were they hemmed by M[orgoth] and must make their abiding as fair as they might by labour and by love. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One has the very tall, burly Man compared to the Elves who come out before the city to meet him, some of whom are also tall, but not as tall as Tuor, who are also strong, but more slender in build. (Turgon is taller than Tuor presumably, but he is waiting at the palace.) The end of the passage reminds the reader of the situation of the Noldor in Gondolin, as here seen by Tuor, and so I think worth keeping. ----------------------------------- The 'but lithe' seems to be refering to the Sindar in comparison to the Noldor. That is the Sindar are more lithe than the Noldor. JRRT greatly changed his mind on the differing statures of Elves and Men. In Lost Tales Tuor was taller than the Elves, but when reading the updated versions this is no longer present. I will post on a seperate thread a comparison of the statures of Elves and Men as JRRT changed them in his writings. Tar-Elenion--------------------- I will come with Fire and Sword, and put your cities to the Torch, your men to the Blade, your women and children in Chains</p> __________________ Tar-Elenion