[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

what I mean, Alatar, (and we'll no doubt get onto it later), is that the Ring has been made more powerful, and a direct contact to Sauron - this is shown when he says 'I can see you' (or something like this!) when Frodo puts the Ring on in Bree.

Okay, didn't see the Bree connection in this sequence. I think that all of that hullabaloo regarding Sauron seeing Frodo was to repetitiously connect the Ring with Sauron and evil. And note that timeline-wise, the Bree scene occurs after Mount Doom erupts. Was this why Frodo doesn't get the same experience as Gandalf when he briefly handles the Ring in Bag End after Bilbo leaves (though he handles is later...hmmm)? Could it be that unless he wears it, he is not sensitive enough or as perceptive as Gandalf is to see Sauron until Sauron awakes?

Also, we therefore never see Sam wear the Ring near Cirith Ungol - therefore Sam is not a Ring Bearer - therefore Sam doesn't follow Frodo years later to the West.

Though we don't explicitly see Sam wear the Ring at Cirith Ungol. I will allow that it happened off screen (something I learned to permit from our many discussions ).

I want to raise another point I had a massive slanging match on on another forum a couple of years back - It's Gandalf's thoughts when Frodo says he can't see any markings on the Ring. I put it to you that there is DISSAPOINTMENT on his face (not relief as everyone else seemed to think at the time) - The reason behind this is that it was Gandalf's JOB to find the Ring so he could help the people of Middle-earth defeat Suaron. He thought he'd found it, but for that second, alas no.

Very interesting idea! To me, it seems that Gandalf is hoping this is one of the lesser Rings, and when Frodo confirms that it's not, Gandalf expresses sadness as he realizes that either Sauron will recover it and conquer all, or that it will be used to overthrow Sauron somehow, yet Frodo at the very least will suffer along the way. What you are saying is that Gandalf was hoping that this was indeed the One, and was disappointed when Frodo initially didn't see the elvish script. Gandalf is hoping that with the resurfacing of the One Ring that doom is near, and his work will come to an end, one way or another.


Not that I'd want to start a poll, but how have others interpretted Gandalf's reactions?

PS he seemed to put it on OK during the Party!!!!! and seemed to have no trouble - indeed he seemed mighty pleased with himself when he put it back in his pocket - so no direct line to Sauron there..............no if we did have a 17 year gap then I might (perhaps) understand the direct link to Sauron theme.

Rewatch the scene when you get a chance. As Bilbo's speech wanes, he becomes more nervous and to me unbalanced. It's like he doesn't want to put on the Ring. When he reaches Bag End, however, he's pretty chipper and pleased with himself. Was he anxious because he was going to disappear in front of a crowd? Or was it the 'taste' that he would get from the Ring? After getting his fix, he's better, though maybe a bit more on the darker side of things. To me it mirrors an addict's actions.

Great thoughts, by the by.