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Old 01-22-2005, 05:44 PM   #20
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I we lock for the source of the home of Beren and Lúthien on Tal Galen. The suggestion about the original text is good.

RD-EX-70: Agreed.

RD-EX-75: Since I wanted the Ents involved in the fight nearer to the ford, to make the reduced numbers of Greenelves more possible and so to follow the Letter more closly than Christopher Tolkien had done. Thus I toke in stead of the wood benath Mount Dolmed the woded further shore of the river which is mention before.

RD-EX-76: Agreed, we will hold the slain chiefes as I did in my alternate version.

RD-EX-78: Well, yes it is fare fetched. But on the other hand, way shouldn't he use that bow? But for the sake of safty we will scip that change.

§49 "the elfin laughter":
The statment goes back to a stage when the fight on the further shore was discribed as in TN. There the flying Dwarves were discribed in detail. And it was especialy stated that he lock of the flying Dwarves filled the Elves with mirth. Do we consider to hold that motiv, or are we just going not to skip the pure statment that the elves laughed. And if the later isn't that a slight change of meaning? For the former I would suggest to add the description:
§47 (§324) <TN Now were the warriors on the far bank {[? }wrapped{]} in battle and rallying sought to come at their foes, but these fled nimbly before them> RD-EX-75 <Sil77 eastwards towards the mountains. And as {they climbed the long slopes beneath Mount Dolmed}<editorial change the Dwarves entered the woods on the further bank> there came forth the Shepherds of the Trees, and they drove the Dwarves into the shadowy woods of Ered Lindon: whence, it is said, came never one to climb the high passes that led to their homes.> RD-EX-76 <TN Now was that {great }fight of the {Stony}[Great] Ford{ ......} nigh to Naugladur>. In that battle the Green Elves took the Dwarves unawares as they were in the midst of their passage, laden with their plunder; and the Dwarvish chiefs were slain, and well nigh all their host{.}, RD-EX-77 <TN for even though Naugladur and his captains led their bands stoutly never might they grip their foe, and death fell like rain upon their ranks until the most part broke and fled, and a noise of clear laughter echoed from the Elves thereat, and they forebore to shoot more, for the illshapen figures of the Dwarves as they fled, their white beards tornby the wind, filled them with mirth.>

§48 (§325) <TN But now stood Naugladur and few were about him, and {he remembered the words of Gwendelin, for} behold, Beren came towards him and he cast aside his bow, and drew a bright sword; and Beren was of great stature{ among the Eldar}, albeit not of the girth and breadth of Naugladur of the Dwarves.>

§49 (§326) <TN Then said Beren: ‘Ward thy life an thou canst, O crook-legged murderer, else will I take it,’ and Naugladur bid him even the {Nauglafring}[Nauglamír], the necklace of wonder, that he be suffered to go unharmed; but Beren said: ‘Nay, that may I still take when thou art slain,’ and thereat he made alone upon Naugladur and his companions, and having slain the foremost of these the others fled away amid {elfin}[elven] laughter, and so Beren came upon Naugladur, slayer of {Tinwelint}[Thingol]. ...
RD-EX-79: Nice catch. But we should delet also the "for ever" in the first sentence, thus we will get:
§51b (§329) RD-EX-79 <TN {But}And the waters of {Aros}[Ascar] flowed on{ for ever} above the drowned hoard of {Glorund}[Glaurung]{, and so do still}, for in after days Dwarves came from Nogrod and sought for it, and for the body of Naugladur; but a flood arose from the mountains and therein the seekers perished; and so great now is the gloom and dread of {that Stony}[the Great] Ford that none seek the treasure that {it}[Ascar] guards [near by] nor dare ever to cross the{ magic} stream[of Duin Daer] at that enchanted place.
Maedhros suggested "elfin gladness" -> "elvish gladness", at least I wouldn't kapitalise "Elven" if that is what we take in here.

Yes we have mentioned the renaming in the version were the Elves drown the treassure activley (fight at the Ford over Duin Daer), but not so in the alternate version (fight at a Ford over Ascar).
If we take the first version i would suggest:
§51f (§333) Yet Melian warned them ever of the curse that lay upon the treasure and upon the Silmaril. The treasure they had drowned indeed in the river{ Ascar, and named it anew} Rathloriel, Golden-Bed, yet the Silmaril they retained{.} ...
RD-EX-83: Agreed.

Agreed. Elwing is to young to wear the Nauglamir. But I would rather change the sentence to make it refer to Dior, which would agree to the earlier statment:
§56a (§337) ... RD-EX-84 <TN And Celegrom {and he} said to them how it was now known to him that a Silmaril of those their father Fëanor had made was now the pride and glory of Dior of the{ southern} vales[ of Doriath], ‘and {Elwing his daughter}[he] bears it whitherso {she}[he] goes - but do you not forget, ...
That change was discussed between me an Maedhros. In view of his reading of the passage, I think we must skip the complete last part (sad as it is):
§56b (§338) ... ‘Then,’ said Curufin, ‘must the {Nauglafring}[Nauglamír] unbroken be given to the sons of Fëanor,’ and Dior{ waxed wroth,} bidding him be gone{, nor dare to claim what his sire Beren the Onehanded won with his hand from the [?jaws] of Melko – ‘other twain are there in the selfsame place,’ said he, ‘an your hearts be bold enow.’}>RD-EX-86 <TY [ returned] {Dior returns} no /clear/ answer /to their claim./>
Thus solving the problemyou see.

RD-SL-32.5: Agreed.

"first premeditated war": Well, I did ever understand it with the emphasis on "premeditated", which made that kinslaying much worth than the first.

RD-SL-33, RD-EX-89:
I also like the change from comma to semicolon more than the second option.

The later was added because the fight was not yet over, though I thought he would not search for the brethern while the weapons stil spoke. But the add was maybe in the wrong place. This would be better:[quote]§57 & §58a (§339) ... RD-EX-92 <Sil77 Of this Maedhros indeed repented, and sought later for them long in the woods of Doriath; but his search was unavailing.>RD-EX-93 <TY (Nothing certain is known of their fate, but some say that the birds succoured them, and led them to Ossir[iand].)>

Thus you think we should make that sentence read thus:
§58c (§341) RD-EX-94 <TN Now{ was naught left of the seed of Beren Ermabwed son of Egnor save} Elwing the Lovely{, and she} wandered <editorial addition along with Nimloth> in the woods, and of the {brown}[grey] Elves and the green a few gathered to her>. ...
I agree on the reference to the Gondolindrim has to go. Your suggestion is good.

I also agree on "faries"-> "Elves"

Locking forward for your comments on RD-SL-27.

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