View Single Post
Old 12-27-2015, 03:14 PM   #10
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 2,904
Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
hahahaha no Galadriel, not quite, as Annatar was a comely 'bad boi'
I was getting curious how long you'd be able to go without this catchphrase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
We repeatedly see Sauron's Ring/s as having most influence over males, such as Celebrimbor (who was spurned by Galadriel), then Isildur, Deagol, Sméagol (who murdered Deagol and that was male-male anger about 'possession'), Bilbo (who never married) then Frodo -- again -- who never married.
First thought that comes to my mind here is that the Ring most readily appeals to dreams of power and domination, which are stereotypically associated with masculinity. It could be an interesting thought experiment to ask ourselves what the Ring would have tempted women with - say, Erendis? Queen Berúthiel? Ioreth? Rosie Cotton?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
The Ring and the mythology had Eowyn downing the 'male' Angmar-ian witch king (another 'seduced' male) by Sauron, and Galadriel (female repellent of a homme fatale) who repelled The Necromancer from the former Amon Lanc in Mirkwood
I'd consider Galadriel as a borderline case in so far as she was, however briefly, tempted by the Ring and teetered on the brink of becoming a true femme fatale: "All shall love me and despair!" Any connection with her mother-name Nerwen, Man-maiden?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
I'm lifting out an 'evil Animus' theme or perhaps an 'evil Anima' theme (and here, I'm seeing the significance of what Tolkien might have inadvertently or implicitly or unconsciously transmitted to us in his notions of 'Evil').
What I see so far boils down to a mixture of gender stereotypes and (maybe unconscious, or semi-conscious) male homophobia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
Why were so many of the males (Sméagol, Frodo, Bilbo--even perhaps Isildur downstream?) separated from parenthood? Is the evil anima/mus concept, therefore, something about diverting the owner away from their birthright?
Wasn't this the Ring-maker's special domain to begin with - diverting mortals away from the Gift of Ilúvatar, their birthright from the Allfather, diverting them from both death and transcendence towards a fake (you might say spectral) immortality, aka undeath?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
So in any 'person-to-person' interaction of Ringbearers -- inevitably -- there is the 'evil animus/ma' there in the background of *each* bearer present, *not* actually bearing the ring (as a subdued or latent or 'watching' unconscious presence, perhaps), interacting with the 'current' bearer's directly-linked evil animus/ma.

This opens up the possibility that there is some kind of variation on 'distorted' empathy (an empathy inversion, for instance, that communicates -- sub vocally -- between bearers. And the inverse of empathy (Sauronic transmission of his Animus/ma now entirely evil for Sauron) is certainly 'evil' incarnate. That is, ordinarily, empathy governs interactions, but in a Sauronic 'inversion' he 'swells greedily' into others 'evil' Animus/ma through inversion-empathy 'conduits' that transmit Sauronic evil.
I can see that in Frodo dominating Gollum in the Mount Doom chapter (stern white figure, wheel of fire, you know what I mean), where the Ring - and thus its Maker - speaks through Frodo. Not so much in other scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
The idea is not really that 'out there'. After all, Tolkien had the Three communicating telepathically. There is a word for it, and I've forgotten in.
The word is osanwe, "communication of thoughts" (literally something like "together-thinking", if I analyse it right), or sanwe-latya, "thought-opening". It's a natural ability among Ainur and Quendi, not tied to Rings, although I suppose the Three may have served as amplifiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivriniel View Post
Merry Xmas everyone
Same to you! Look to the future, it's only just begun.
__________________
The 21st century is when everything changes, you've got to be ready.
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote