The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - *A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin*

**lindil** · 06-10-2001, 11:38 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
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Re: A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin

Jallanite, I can but echo Aiwenil's sentiments in agreeing that your compilation is both seemingly [I say only because my linguistic knowledge is so such that I can not readily judge such efforts] comprehensive and extraordinarily well laid out, and rapidly produced.

1>On the matter of Orks, I can go either way - if CRT would have gone ahead and authorized such a change in LotR there would be no question , but in this case we have competing versions of an obviously frequent word:
Ork as JRRT's stated, but unrealized [in a canonical publication] preference; and
Orc as the universal usage in LotR, which we wish to be in harmony with. I agree w/ your historical conclusions re; porc/orc and it's pref. as in Elven,Dwarven etc. As for magick, I fancy that if JRRT knew of the original backing for that spelling he would on principle stick w/ orc!
...but I digress - I think you are right in that the word will have to be voted on.

A few other q's arose in my mind .
2>
If we have a Quenya Voronwe - from a Sin. Bronweg; why not a sindarin Legolas Greenleaf - I do not know if the vocabulary exists to facilitate it - but if so it seems the easiest remedy to the problem. From what we read in UT it seems highly unlikly that Thrandiul would name his Sindarin/Sylvan son after a Noldorin captain [ or at least a captain from a Noldorin City.]

3>It seems that I read re: Rog that JRRT was planning / would have changed the word - if he had ever rewritten the story, which seems to very likely, it is simply to coarse a word for a name in elvish, sounds like an ork name actually! maybe some of the folks at Elfling might have an idea - or even the Vinyar tengwar folks might have read an as yet unpublished solution to the [in my mind] dilemna. I simply can not see using Rog as a proper name for an Elf of Gondolin, and would [sadly] vote for it's elimination if no suitable substitution could be found.

There were a couple of other points I am wondering about, but I will put those off for a day or two.

4> If you [Jallanite] and Aiwendil would send me your email addresses , I have a couple of items reserved for project members which you might find extremely useful. My email can be found by clicking on Lindil and hitting the link on my Public profile [ or you can
post your own email on your pub. profile.

again great work -
are you related to Tar-Elenion? <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on yet a 2nd new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://pub72.ezboard.com/bosanwe" >Osanwe</a> , and http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</A>. and Finrod saith " Therefore Eru,if He will not relinquish His work to Melkor...then Eru must come in to conquer him. </p>

06-10-2001, 11:38 PM	#15
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,681	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 633</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin Jallanite, I can but echo Aiwenil's sentiments in agreeing that your compilation is both seemingly [I say only because my linguistic knowledge is so such that I can not readily judge such efforts] comprehensive and extraordinarily well laid out, and rapidly produced. 1>On the matter of Orks, I can go either way - if CRT would have gone ahead and authorized such a change in LotR there would be no question , but in this case we have competing versions of an obviously frequent word: Ork as JRRT's stated, but unrealized [in a canonical publication] preference; and Orc as the universal usage in LotR, which we wish to be in harmony with. I agree w/ your historical conclusions re; porc/orc and it's pref. as in Elven,Dwarven etc. As for magick, I fancy that if JRRT knew of the original backing for that spelling he would on principle stick w/ orc! ...but I digress - I think you are right in that the word will have to be voted on. A few other q's arose in my mind . 2> If we have a Quenya Voronwe - from a Sin. Bronweg; why not a sindarin Legolas Greenleaf - I do not know if the vocabulary exists to facilitate it - but if so it seems the easiest remedy to the problem. From what we read in UT it seems highly unlikly that Thrandiul would name his Sindarin/Sylvan son after a Noldorin captain [ or at least a captain from a Noldorin City.] 3>It seems that I read re: Rog that JRRT was planning / would have changed the word - if he had ever rewritten the story, which seems to very likely, it is simply to coarse a word for a name in elvish, sounds like an ork name actually! maybe some of the folks at Elfling might have an idea - or even the Vinyar tengwar folks might have read an as yet unpublished solution to the [in my mind] dilemna. I simply can not see using Rog as a proper name for an Elf of Gondolin, and would [sadly] vote for it's elimination if no suitable substitution could be found. There were a couple of other points I am wondering about, but I will put those off for a day or two. 4> If you [Jallanite] and Aiwendil would send me your email addresses , I have a couple of items reserved for project members which you might find extremely useful. My email can be found by clicking on Lindil and hitting the link on my Public profile [ or you can post your own email on your pub. profile. again great work - are you related to Tar-Elenion? <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on yet a 2nd new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://pub72.ezboard.com/bosanwe" >Osanwe</a> , and http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</A>. and Finrod saith " Therefore Eru,if He will not relinquish His work to Melkor...then Eru must come in to conquer him. </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.