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Old 05-15-2006, 04:42 AM   #218
davem
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Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
If you're arguing for a religious sub-text to LotR (TH, The Sil, et al) I don't disagree – as I've said. I don't think any of the examples you've cited would argue against it being a Jewish, Muslim or Hindu sub-text though. You haven't offered evidence for a specifically Christian sub-text imo.

Its impossible to argue against there being a loving Deity behind the events in Middle-earth, but apart from the reference in Athrabeth I can't see Eru bears any relation to Jehovah.

As an aside, on the news today the Government are planning to teach 'Britishness' in schools, in order to bring about a more 'integrated & co-hesive' society. Apparently this will include teaching children about 'tolerance, democracy & equality' as well as the contribution made by all ethnic groups to our culture. Now, I'm sure you'll agree that all those things are uniquely 'British' & cannot be found in any other country in the world

I can't help feeling that you're doing something similar with the examples you've given of 'Christian' themes in LotR.

Of course, one could argue that it is all down to chance, & that M-e is simply the kind of world where odd synchronicities & serendipities just happen – I'm sure many of the inhabitants believe just that, & I'm sure there are some readers who think the same.

However, even if one accepts a 'Christian sub-text' to the story all that proves is that Tolkien was a Christian & the story reflected his worldview. That said, he deliberately 'concealed' any explicit reference to his religion, which means that if you don't want to pick up on the sub-text you can safely ignore it.

The point being, the story can be understood & enjoyed without any knowledge of, or reference to, Christianity. The unique thing about Christianity is the Incarnation, nothing else. There is no actual Incarnation in the Legendarium, only a single reference to the possibility of something like that happening 'one day'. Again, most readers do not pick up on any Christian subtext, though they probably pick up on a religious one. I'm still not sure I see the relevance of it all though. And it certainly doesn't prove anything about the Primary world anyway.

Quote:
There is no satisfactory explanation for WHY it keeps happening the way it does. Scientists are forced to answer, "Well, that's the law of (fill in the blank)." What's behind the law? God is behind the law.
Well, the scientists are merely being honest there & I can't see how you can criticise them for that. I don't think you can bring God into it as an 'explanation' without more evidence. That's just back to the 'God of the Gaps' again

Quote:
For example, God's reality is in the very fact that the sun shines by day and the stars by night. That the planets continue to spin and revolve and our hearts keep beating. We take all of it so for granted that we don't even consider that God's creative and maintaining will are behind everything continuing to work.
Only if you want to see it that way. I'm not saying its not exactly like that, but I'm not smart enough (or, to be frank, interested enough) to decide which of the various religious or scientific 'traditions' are True.
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