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Old 05-05-2009, 03:44 PM   #6
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Most interesting topic!

A pity I'm not sure if I will be able to think of it enough now to contribute much, but at least something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiwendil View Post
Interesting idea, but I must say I don't at all buy it. Tolkien seems to have been quite settled on the idea that a (perhaps the) fundamental difference between Elves and Men was this: Elvish spirits remain in the world after they die; Mannish spirits depart 'elsewhither'.

Of course, there are a very few exceptions, but these are all very special and very well recorded cases. Beren was reincarnated, but only before his spirit 'sought elsewhither' and left Arda. Turin is prophecized to return at the Dagor Dagorath, 'returning from the Doom of Men' - but this is of course a one-shot, as it were, and doesn't come about until the world's end. Gandalf was sent back by Iluvatar, but only because he had a very particular mission to fulfill and because he was, after all, really a Maia and merely incarnated in human form.
Yes, I certainly disagree with any kind of reincarnation-like things when it comes to Men (and Hobbits), and especially: even the moments you mention were not really reincarnation. Or, they were: in the sense of taking it in the purely material way, simply, reappearing again after death. But the term "reincarnation" being mostly used for the return of a, let's say, spirit into a new different body, perhaps we are closer to the Judeo-Christian concept of "resurrection" - which signifies returning of basically the same person, or at least the preservation of identity (perhaps with a few "differences in quality" - well, something like Gandalf the White in contrary to Gandalf the Grey, indeed!). Certainly Túrin would be the same Túrin, wouldn't he? Likewise Beren was rather resurrected - I wonder if he even still lacked one hand, by the way.

Moreover, I would find any ideas of reincarnation in Middle-Earth dismissed by what is said in the Appendices about the Dwarves - there is something about Durin and the Dwarves believing that he returns from time to time (indeed, reincarnates) - and the comment after this sentence is something like "because they have many strange beliefs", which basically says "well you see, Dwarves are weird, they believe in something us Hobbits - and Men and Elves, relatedly, because that's who we are writing this for - find really weird".
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