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Old 09-12-2000, 03:16 PM   #10
Shade of Carn Dm
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 346
Saulotus has just left Hobbiton.

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
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Re: Literary devices

Understood about RL.

Most of these points are already present and answered by Tolkien himself in his essays.

Orcs, as I pointed out on one board somewhere... Even the SILMARILLION shows they were labelled as beasts (see Elwe and dwarven discussion in SIL). The elvish connection was presumed by the Elves.

Other points:
I think working it much as Tolkien himself did with LOTR is the best solution. (i.e. finished product [History etc] then working backwards. Metal constructed Dragons are old concepts replaced. They are then discarded, despite the interestin situation. Trees are rendered viable by a connection Tolkien missed in his own examination (as I pointed out on this board somewhere?). One key is the Dome of Valinor. This is one he established for Elbereth, but also serves in the capacity of the intent of the Trees, namely the lighting of Valinor. Melkor had clouded the world. The sun and moon could not shine through (aside from the idea that the Valar consider the light of the sun 'corrupted'. The light of the trees is 'uncorrupted'. On to the sun and moon created from the trees: also viable without change. Another point missed by Tolkien is that after the removal of Valinor from the 'physical universe' (I believe this is Tolkien's phrase), where does the light of Valinor now germinate from? In any case taken this is a problem area. Essentially, the sun and moon of the trees are NOT the SUN and MOON of Arda, but of Valinor solely, and one that is perfectly compatible with drawings of Valinor and the sun and moon within the atmosphere of earth. This is not re-writing as far as I can tell, but the completion of his own thought processes that seem to have been somehow sidetracked, and within his own thoughts and intent. There are enough references in later material that clearly show the return to a round earth theory. His main problem seems to have been the reconciliation of the sun and moon existing BEFORE the trees, and yet still constructed after the Trees, while trying to keep them the same objects, when the answer was somewhat obvious.

AKALLABETH is already stated by Christopher to have been an older version.

Men are easy as Tolkien seems to have realized that the time lag between awakening and arrival in Beleriand is far too short. How would Feanor know of the awakening of Men?

When taking the information available and working backward, eliminating that which is altered, without adding new material, I'm not sure how that is labeled re-write, but is rather editing. Adding in Trotter the Hobbit to LOTR is re-write.

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