[Estelyn Telcontar]

Diamond18's post:

Edit: This post was written without seeing Fordim's reply.

Originally Posted by Saurreg

I know two types of people who like parodies; the first are people who are acquainted with the original work the parody is based on and would not mind viewing the work in an askewed perspective for a good laugh or to view the original work in another angle as additional food for thought. These people like the original work but are generally casual and easy-going over it. Not "too-into-it" and "taking-it-easy" are the orders of the day here.

I’d fall into that category, methinks. Though I’ve never really felt the urge to read Bored of the Rings or others. Really, the only Tolkien parodies I’ve read were threads or links posted in Mirth, that “What if LotR had been written by someone else?” thread in Books, and Esty’s Entish Bow RPGs.

I think there’s a third definition missing here: the spoof. As I see it (in my own little world) the spoof is the gentlest form of mockery – instead of making any judgements or copying the general storyline, it includes element(s) in a wink wink nudge nudge fashion. For instance, “Shrek” parodied and satired many fairy tale archtypes, but I would say the scene where Fiona channels Trinity is more a spoof of the Matrix than a parody. It’s just one element that pops up unexpectedly, and it’s rather affectionate to its source material.

When I write in the REB RPGs, I see it as a spoof of LotR (among a rather lot of other things). I have a half-elf who blithely spouts the worst poetry in the galaxy, but that doesn’t mean I think Tolkien’s Elven poetry is bad. Quite the opposite. I just thought it was be a way to turn LotR on its head.

I’ve written spoofs, parodies, and satires of my own original work, incidentally. I’ve also written s/p/s’s of general story types. I see it as a way to just keep it real. That said, I have to be in the right mood to appreciate the merits of mockery, or I too can just shrug and wonder what’s so clever.

Lame parodies/satires are just sad, really.


Estelyn's post:

I like parodies, satire, and spoofs! (For those who have noticed my Fiona avatar, or may even have read the notorious ‘Entish Bow’ RPG, for which I am the chiefly responsible culprit, that may be stating the obvious, but I do want to make sure my standpoint is clear!) I’m pretty sure I have an old paperback copy of ‘Bored of the Rings’ around somewhere, and while plundering English bookshops recently, I purchased ‘The Soddit’ (along with both ‘Barry Trotter’ books, parodies of You-Know-Who). I’ll give a brief opinion on ‘The Soddit’ in a later post, since writing this one has taken up the time I have for now, but let me add my comments to the general discussion on the worth and nature of parodies which Bêthberry started.

First of all, there are good parodies and there are bad ones. Should you have started off with one of the poor examples, it could make you think that parodies are a bad thing. But those that are well-written and well thought out are wonderful! I’ve found some examples of this category on the Flying Moose site, which hosts the Tolkien satire pages, in a very few of the best ‘secret diaries’, and in the finest moments of the ‘Entish Bow’.

I would see differences between the categories spoof, parody, and satire. ‘Spoof’ would seem to me to be the lightest-hearted of them and could be used generically. ‘Parody’, I think, refers more to a humorous version concentrated on a single work and contains the element of turning things around to show their funny, often ridiculous, side and using specific characters and places. ‘Satire’ is more general and can be sharper, more bitter and pointed in its humour; it can be based on real life situations such as politics.

Why parody? (I’m using the word in a general sense, so much of what I say can apply to both other categories as well.) Parody is play. It is playing with words, plot elements, and characters to give them a new twist. For that reason, people who are not into playing with language probably don’t appreciate it. That’s fine – there are other variations of language usage that I don’t appreciate, so fair enough!

‘Shrek’, to take an example dear to my heart and mentioned by Diamond above, plays with fairy tale concepts, turning them around. The dragon should not be killed – it could be your ally later (and it just might be a female!). Your true love is not necessarily the handsome prince. What you consider ugly could be real beauty.

Most parodies play with the characters’ names (and those of places), using close equivalents that are comical, either because they are words with a different meaning or perhaps brand names. The latter is one of the reasons that much parody is dated after a few years – or why the jokes don’t work in a different country. (‘Bored of the Rings’ is an example of the former – some of the references are no longer funny, since they are now unfamiliar.) As Mithalwen said:

not being American or quite old enough

Good parody can only be written by one who loves the work being parodied, in my opinion. As Diamond wrote above:

it’s rather affectionate to its source material

Why bother to play with something one doesn’t like? (Unless blatant commercialism is the reason for writing it… ) This is where I’m with Saraphim:

Ah, but there is a third kind. The group who love and respect Tolkien (or any original work, really) to the degree that nothing anyone says or parodies can possibly matter to their idea of the original.

Perhaps I am merely projecting here; creating a group of one (which is technically not a group at all). But personally, I found The Soddit and Bored of the Rings to be very funny, especially to one who knows the original and can get the allusionary jokes and gags, which may not be funny entirely on their own.

Make that a group of at least two – and I know that there are more of that kind out there!

Playing with a work I love (either as a reader or writer) gives me a different angle on it, enables me to see it in a new, fresh way. And the element of familiarity which is so essential to understanding parody is given, since I know the work well enough to catch the references – or write them, if I’m doing it myself. Good parody must be based on a thorough knowledge of the original source! As davem says:

it depended on the audience having a real knowledge of the book

That also answers Bêthberry’s question as far as I’m concerned – I don’t think a parody is enjoyable to a reader who is not familiar with the original work on which it is based.

Yes, in some ways writing a parody is easier than writing an original, Fordim, since one has the given story on which to base it, but consider it a form of sub-creation, then it is justified in a Tolkienized sense! And without some kind of originality, it’s a poor parody.