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Old 03-23-2019, 12:58 PM   #47
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,150
Aiwendil has been trapped in the Barrow!
I continue to make my way through this slowly. Some more comments for now:

CE-EX-25: I suppose LQ does add some details here that may be worth including, but I think that since we have included sections 41-45 of AAm, we must make a small deletion:

Quote:
And Oromë looking upon the Elves was filled with love and wonder, as though they were beings sudden and marvellous and unforetold. For {[}so{]} it shall ever be even with the Valar. From without the world, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and strange.
CE-EX-25.1{Thus it was that Oromë came upon the Quendi by chance in his wandering, while they dwelt yet silent {upon [read }beside{]} the star-lit mere, {Kuivienen}[Cuivienen], Water of Awakening, in the East of Middle-earth.}
In LQ, this sentence comes almost immediately after it is told that Orome found the Elves, but in our text we have already told about this at some length (from AAm).

CE-SL-11: Following Tolkien’s own change to the text here, I think we have to delete a little bit more:

Quote:
CE-SL-11{For a while he abode with them and aided them in the making of language; for that was their first work of craft upon Earth, and ever most dear to their hearts, and the fair Elvish speech was sweet in the ears of the Valar. Then swiftly Oromë rode back over land and sea to Valinor, filled with the thought of the beauty of the Elves, and he brought the tidings to Valmar. And the {Gods}[Valar] rejoiced, and yet were amazed at what he told; but}<LQ; Ch. 3; Note to §19 Then swiftly he rode back over land and sea to Valinor, filled with the thought of the beauty of the long-awaited, and he brought the tidings to Valmar.
Tolkien deleted the “for a while he abode with them”, and thus changed the story so that Orome immediately returned to Valinor, and only afterward came and stayed with the Elves for a while at Cuivienen.

CE-EX-26: As ever, I think I’m a little bit more hesitant than others to transplant scattered bits from the Lost Tales into our narrative, but I can make no real objection to this. But there is a ‘may’ that must become ‘might’ in the past tense. Also, I am not completely sure, but I think that in later Quenya, the root vowel is prefixed to a verb in the perfect tense, so it should become utulielto instead of tulielto (cf. utulien aure, ‘the day has come’). So:

Quote:
CE-EX-26 <LT Oromë {pricks}pricked over the plain, and drawing rein he {shouts}shouted aloud so that all the ears in Valmar {may}might hear him: ‘Utulielto! Utulieito! They have come - they have come!’ Then he {stands}stood midway between the Two Trees and {winds}wound his horn, and the gates of Valmar {are}were opened, and the Vali trooped into the plain, for they guessed that tidings of wonder {have}had come into the world.
CE-EX-27: I’m a little unsure about changing the words of Palurien here to the thoughts of Orome, though I guess it works. More problematic is the use of the word ‘Eldar’ here, since Orome hasn’t yet had a chance to learn their language and name them that.

CE-EX-28: It’s true that Angainor still exists in the later versions, though I must admit that some of the LT detail of its making feel a little out of place to me. But chiefly I worry about the name tilkal and its strange etymology. As far as I can tell, ‘tambe’, ‘latuken’, ‘ilsa’, and ‘kanu’ never show up again after the LT era, and in later Quenya, ‘laure’ is explicitly said to refer to gold as a colour, but not to the metal. I suppose we could try keeping ‘tilka’, but removing the etymology:

Quote:
CE-EX-28 <LT ; and of the redes there spoken the {Gods}[Valar] devised a plan of wisdom, and the thought of Ulmo was therein and much of the craft of Aulë and the wide knowledge of Manwë. Behold, Aulë now gathered six metals, copper, silver, tin, lead, iron, and gold, and taking a portion of each made with his {magic}[power] a seventh which he named {therefore} tilkal, {[Footnote in the manuscript: T(ambe) I(lsa) L(atuken) K(anu) A(nga) L(aure). ilsa and laure are the 'magic' names of ordinary telpe and kulu.]} and this had . . .
Incidentally, I have no real problem with the word ‘magic’ here (there are plenty of other, more jarring to me, elements from the LT that we have included in our version), but I will not argue against changing it to ‘power’ either.

There is also a missing change from ‘Angaino’ to ‘Angainor’ just following this. ‘Vorotemnar’ and ‘Ilterindi’ looks fine to me, though.

CE-EX-29: There seems to me to be both some redundancy and some contradiction here between LT, MT, and LQ - notably, that in LQ the Valar go immediately to war and show no intention of “entreating” Melkor to change his ways, so at the very least I think this statement from LT must go. Moreover, I think the MT statement is (aside from being again written with an analytical rather than narrative tone) part of what we might have to consider a projected and unimplementable sketch for a new version of the story, where Utumno is not sacked by the Valar, but rather Melkor guilefully surrenders to them. But I suppose I should consider that when I come to the proper place in reviewing the text. Of more immediate concern is that this statement clearly contradicts LQ, where the intention of the Valar is to defeat Melkor, not merely to provide a “covering action” to defend the Quendi. Findegil has made one change to eliminate this contradiction, in the deletion of “and make an end”, but we still have this:

Quote:
And Manwë said to the Valar: 'This is the counsel of Ilúvatar in my heart: that we should take up again the mastery of Arda, at whatsoever cost, and deliver the Quendi from the shadows of Melkor.'
If we do decide to follow the MT idea that the Valar did not expect to defeat Melkor but only went to war intending to give the Elves time to come to Aman, then we must find some way to remove this. It could be done by taking the shorter account from AAm:

Quote:
. . . and sweet was the Elven-tongue on the ears of the Valar. But> CE-SL-11.5<AAm Manwë sat long in thought upon Taniquetil, and he resolved at the last to make war upon Melkor, though Arda should receive yet more hurts in that strife.> <LQ Then Tulkas was glad; but Aulë was grieved, . . .
At any rate, it seems to me that the MT statement here, even if we decide that its content can be adopted into our version, rather loses its point when removed from its context - that context being that Melkor has now dispersed his power, so that it comes as a surprise to the Valar that they are able to defeat him. So even if we decide to use this paragraph from MT, I’d prefer to find some way to keep the paragraph together in one piece.

I would, therefore, do this:

Quote:
{But the desire of the {Gods}[Valar] was to seek out {Melko}[Melkor] with greatpower - and to entxeat him, if it might be, to better deeds; yet did they purpose, if naught else availed, to overcome him by force or guile, and set him in a bondage from which there should be no escape.}>
{§21} But now the Valar made ready and came forth from Aman in the strength of war, resolving to assault the CE-SL-12{fortress}[fortresses] of Melkor in the North CE-SL-12.1{ and make an end.
Where I’ve broken off CE-SL-12.1 as its own number because it is only necessary in case we decide to adopt the MT statement.

CE-EX-30: I’ve gone back and forth on this a little bit, but in the end I don’t think I have any problem with the inclusion of this description of the Valar’s battle array.

Coming back to CE-EX-03, my inclination is still not to include it, as I think the motivation for the council is already very clearly implied, but again, it's a minor point and if others disagree I certainly won't put up a fight.
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