The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Half-orcs and Uruk-hai, a hypothesis

Westerly Wizard · 10-24-2002, 06:50 PM

It specifically says in UT that Saruman knew of Gandalf's possession of narya: "And the Grey Messenger took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became Manifest."

As for the uruk-hai, I believe that they are actually the closest thing to Goblin-men, as we learn especially from Treebeard: "He [Saruman} has taken up with foul folk, with orcs. Brm, hoom! Worse than that: he has been doing something with them; something dangerous. For these Isengarders are more like wicked Men. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's OPrcs can endure it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil?"

I don't believe that the half-orc goblinmen actually exist. The squint-eyed southerner does not actually have orc-blood in him, it simply appears as if he does because he is a wild dunlending: "an outlaw driven from Dunland, where mny said that he had Orc-blood." The word where in this sentence must either be taken to mean something along the lines of "hence" (unless you wish for it to meen that simply he had orc-blood in Dunland); there is nothing to show he consists of orc-blood and, moreover, there is no reference to his semi-goblin-like appearence when the Hobbits first see him in full view.

10-24-2002, 06:50 PM	#10
Westerly Wizard Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 72	It specifically says in UT that Saruman knew of Gandalf's possession of narya: "And the Grey Messenger took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became Manifest." As for the uruk-hai, I believe that they are actually the closest thing to Goblin-men, as we learn especially from Treebeard: "He [Saruman} has taken up with foul folk, with orcs. Brm, hoom! Worse than that: he has been doing something with them; something dangerous. For these Isengarders are more like wicked Men. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's OPrcs can endure it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil?" I don't believe that the half-orc goblinmen actually exist. The squint-eyed southerner does not actually have orc-blood in him, it simply appears as if he does because he is a wild dunlending: "an outlaw driven from Dunland, where mny said that he had Orc-blood." The word where in this sentence must either be taken to mean something along the lines of "hence" (unless you wish for it to meen that simply he had orc-blood in Dunland); there is nothing to show he consists of orc-blood and, moreover, there is no reference to his semi-goblin-like appearence when the Hobbits first see him in full view. __________________ "He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure."