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**lindil** · 10-10-2002, 02:01 PM

Topic: Laws and Customs: Marriage and Childbirth
Mhoram
Dead and Loving It

Member # 208

Member Rated:

posted March 15, 2002 01:05 PM
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quote:
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For at the end of the third year mortal children began to outstrip the Elves, hastening on to a full stature while the Elves lingered in the first spring of childhood. Children of Men might reach their full height while Eldar of the same age were still in body like to mortals of no more than seven years. Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would after-wards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown.
And later...

The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year.

And later...

But at whatever age they married, their children were born within a short space of years after their wedding. Short as the Eldar reckoned time. In mortal count there was often a long interval between the wedding and the first child-birth, and even longer between child and child.

-Laws and Customs, HoME X

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It is very clear that everything above is said in Years of the Sun. Why would Tolkien give us these statements and then have all the recorded births/marriages be totally blind to them? I mean look at these figures below, it's practically random. Any thoughts?

The first elves, including Finwe, come to Valinor in 1133 YT.
Miriel is said to have been born in Aman, so she and Finwe couldn't have wed any earlier than 1133 YT.

Feanor is born to Finwe in 1169 YT
Feanor has seven sons by 1490 YT
Thats 321 YT, 32,100 YS.

Fingolfin is born 50 YS after Finwe marries Indis.
Finarfin is born 400 YS after Fingolfin.

Fingolfin is 900 YS when he has his first child, Fingon.
Turgon is born to Fingolfin 200 YS after Fingon.
Isfin is born to Fingolfin 620 YS after Turgon.

Finarfin is 500 YS when he weds Earwen.
Finrod is born to Finarfin 200 YS after marriage.
Galadriel is born 620 YS after Finrod, with Orodreth, Angrod, and Aegnor between the two.

Turgon is 1690 YS when he has Idril.

And note, this is all during years of peace, so the bearing of children shouldn't have been interupted.
Also note that I used 1=10 instead of 1-9.582 since there's no need to be exact here.

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\m/ Lyrics...wasted time between guitar solos! \m/

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Posts: 420 | From: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

Aralaithiel
Ghost Eldaran Queen

Member # 1240

Member Rated:

posted March 15, 2002 06:35 PM
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Hmmmm...ya got me. I'll check back & see if anyone has an explanation, as I am not good with numbers.
Mhoram, I like the little bouncy thingy at the bottom of your post!
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"None and none! What I have left behind I count now no loss; needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar. Let the ships burn! Fëanor
Mí essë Eru, inyë Nárëlindalë Aralaithiel, haryanyë le, Laiqualassë Thranduilion, ve vernonya, harya ho sina aurë ar tennoio, terë alassë, terë angayassë, mi fárë, mi ufárë, melmë le eressë. Sina ná vandanya.

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Posts: 628 | From: Surveying the realm as High Queen of the Eldar | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP:

10-10-2002, 02:01 PM	#7
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Topic: Laws and Customs: Marriage and Childbirth Mhoram Dead and Loving It Member # 208 Member Rated: posted March 15, 2002 01:05 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For at the end of the third year mortal children began to outstrip the Elves, hastening on to a full stature while the Elves lingered in the first spring of childhood. Children of Men might reach their full height while Eldar of the same age were still in body like to mortals of no more than seven years. Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would after-wards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown. And later... The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year. And later... But at whatever age they married, their children were born within a short space of years after their wedding. Short as the Eldar reckoned time. In mortal count there was often a long interval between the wedding and the first child-birth, and even longer between child and child. -Laws and Customs, HoME X -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is very clear that everything above is said in Years of the Sun. Why would Tolkien give us these statements and then have all the recorded births/marriages be totally blind to them? I mean look at these figures below, it's practically random. Any thoughts? The first elves, including Finwe, come to Valinor in 1133 YT. Miriel is said to have been born in Aman, so she and Finwe couldn't have wed any earlier than 1133 YT. Feanor is born to Finwe in 1169 YT Feanor has seven sons by 1490 YT Thats 321 YT, 32,100 YS. Fingolfin is born 50 YS after Finwe marries Indis. Finarfin is born 400 YS after Fingolfin. Fingolfin is 900 YS when he has his first child, Fingon. Turgon is born to Fingolfin 200 YS after Fingon. Isfin is born to Fingolfin 620 YS after Turgon. Finarfin is 500 YS when he weds Earwen. Finrod is born to Finarfin 200 YS after marriage. Galadriel is born 620 YS after Finrod, with Orodreth, Angrod, and Aegnor between the two. Turgon is 1690 YS when he has Idril. And note, this is all during years of peace, so the bearing of children shouldn't have been interupted. Also note that I used 1=10 instead of 1-9.582 since there's no need to be exact here. -------------------- \m/ Lyrics...wasted time between guitar solos! \m/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 420 \| From: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. \| Registered: Apr 2001 \| IP: Logged Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Member # 1240 Member Rated: posted March 15, 2002 06:35 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmmm...ya got me. I'll check back & see if anyone has an explanation, as I am not good with numbers. Mhoram, I like the little bouncy thingy at the bottom of your post! -------------------- "None and none! What I have left behind I count now no loss; needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar. Let the ships burn! Fëanor Mí essë Eru, inyë Nárëlindalë Aralaithiel, haryanyë le, Laiqualassë Thranduilion, ve vernonya, harya ho sina aurë ar tennoio, terë alassë, terë angayassë, mi fárë, mi ufárë, melmë le eressë. Sina ná vandanya. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 628 \| From: Surveying the realm as High Queen of the Eldar \| Registered: Jan 2002 \| IP: __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.