[Elora]

No offense and your comments are welcome. Hopfully my reply will be taken in the same manner.


The cellar is concealed by brush. A thought that occurred to me is why Rangers would take the liberty of searching a private residence without the owner present in the dark with Naiore conceivably lurking nearby.

Such riffling of private property I would think sit ill with the Rangers.

As for Vanwe, this seems very much a matter of opinion and perspective. Let me give you mine, as she is my creature.

What's up with Vanwe? How is she turning into this superhero? She's not even a hero yet; she is too bloody weak and pathetic. To me, she's very weak --she's almost stagnant. She's predictable. Have I missed something here?

Perhaps so, Imladris. Hilde raised the concern about Vanwe suddenly becoming powerful. Hence my comments on this.

On a broader scale, Vanwe is far from weak. She sees herself as small, and yet her achievments thus far in her history suggests otherwise. A weak and pathetic character would never have dared defy the Haradrim and flee. Certainly the long and harsh road would have been the end of her. Vanwe has been able to get herself through many challenging situations.

She is weak now on account of what she was given by her mother. I could not magic away the effects of such a thing and keep the plot plausible.

1. "I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there."
Was this discussed in a PM or something?

No PMs have passed on this. It's merely my reply to what Hilde posted earlier today (board time) concerning Vanwe's character development through the course of the RP thus far.

Vanwe is a victim character right now. She's been picked on by the entire world, according to her history. She can't do anything. That can make a really good character, but it's a little much right now. In this RPG, she hasn't used her abilities to sense things. Why is she so frightened in the cellar? You are having an effect without having a cause. Is it because her mother betrayed her?

I really have to disagree with you on that one. Vanwe's character profile clearly sets out her abilities and as you can see she is far from completely devoid of skills. She can do something. In addition to her adept surivival skills, Vanwe's sensativities and healing abilities give her talent. She's also artistically minded.

Forgive me if the RP has not enabled me to fully reveal Vanwe's entire personality, but it is only in it's early stages. Vanwe has had to be grabbed for this RP to even begin. That means she had to have vulnerabilities that fit that scenario. It doesn't mean anything else.

By the way, the whole world didn't pick on Vanwe. She's suspicious of the world as she's an isolated figure in it, divorced from her culture, her kindred and any community. However, as evinced by her involvement in the Green Dragon, not everyone picks on her.

She found the beginings of friends and home there, and her perspective on the world was slowly changing. Naiore's intervention via this RP has taken her away from those bonds. I have said before now that I plan on Vanwe forging them again in this RP. She has a connection with Lespheria, and had a connection with Hanasian. She will forge new connections.

What is this "terrified reach" you are talking about? Was it when she felt that terror well up inside her and she would have screamed if she had had the strength? That's hardly a gift. She didn't read anybody.

Actually, Vanwe did reach with her emotions. Given her sensativities, she projected this. Lespheria sensed her. That has all been recorded in RP. Were Vanwe better skilled in her abilities, perhaps she could have been both more coherent and better targeted than simply projecting wildly outwards.

Neither Vanwe nor Naiore read people.... both sense aspects about people. Naiore senses emotions with startling insight (combination of practised observation and her innate ability as discussed in her character profile). Vanwe has inherited this also, but it is more about sensing injury and illness and putting that right - hence healing.

Lespheria is also has a version of this sensativity. She sensed Vanwe, being familiar with her already to a point, but for Lespheria to do that, Vanwe had to be conscious.

Also, the Rangers were not sitting and doing nothing. From what I have read, Naiore is not someone to go rushing after rashly. She is a force that needs to be reckoned with. It would be foolhardy to go after Naiore so impetuously. Besides, it just seemed like they were taking a long time because it took a few days to post what really happened in just a few minutes. I don't think it would have been very smart to meet and then just to go after Naiore without comparing notes and making a logical decision based on those notes. Even Aragorn was leery to track the hobbits in the dark, and they were valued friends.

No kidding! But, where to start in the night without a target acquired? House to house search of Bree until they stumbled over Barrold Ferney?

Lespheria provided direction. That, added to intelligence gathered has been enough for some to have their Ranger characters go off in search during the night.

I'll be more than happy to move it along. My perspective is this. I've been delaying to allow Barrold to begin interacting with other folk - Kaldir notably. Were the Rangers following Naiore, they'd have their targets split as Barrold headed in one direction to dispose of the gelding and Naiore in the other. Can't have the capture too simple as it's not due to happen yet and that would only make the Rangers look a little foolish - something we wish to avoid.

I'm eager to get this moving along, but discussion cropped up as to where Naiore, Vanwe and Barrold should be. It's yet to be resolved. Should I post, inevitably, someone or the other shall be jumping up and down about it not suiting their plans.

Hence, this discussion. My opinion is that it would be easier for us all if the Rangers set up a watch over Barrold's house. If they don't know where Naiore is, it's unlikely they'll venture in blindly. Meanwhile, watching Barrold will at least take care of that aspect of their hunt.

Why it is necessary for Rangers to search "tonight" RP time, I don't really know. Then again, I'm not planning for any Ranger character. That lies in the hands of those who are. I'm doing my level best to accomodate people's opinions and wishes.

Not to forget, last time I hurried this along, I ended up gazumping people. Not keen to repeat that.

Just because Vanwe underestimates herself doesn't mean she should just sit there, tied, without trying to do something to free herself. Heck, even Pippin tried to help by throwing away his Lorien brooch. Why isn't she doing anything? Why isn't she trying to find her mother and figure out what's going on?

Were Vanwe conscious, she would be doing something. Perhaps I have not been clear enough in describing what was done to her by her mother and her present state. Let me remedy that now.

Naiore administered a tincture she developed. Its effects are to pull all energy, physical and mental, into the body for a period of sustained exertion. It dulls the mind increasingly as the hours pass. Naiore administered it at morning. It is now late evening. Vanwe is exhausted physically and mentally.

However, Vanwe is recovering and much faster than Naiore could have ever expected, hence Naiore's surprise at sensing Vanwe's projection at all. Believe me, once Vanwe is conscious and able to move muscles, she will not simply lie bound quietly.

Once again, the plot states that Vanwe accompanies Naiore willingly or otherwise until Rivendell. When she wakes bound, Naiore's ability to gull Vanwe will be reduced. It will become a process of threat and inuendo from that point. I can't have it too easy for Vanwe or Naiore if this is to be an interesting RP.

Vanwe is stagnant.

If that is true, I'll have Barrold kill her now and you can run the RP without her.

That's why she needs to escape. She's been searching for Mom and Dad for years, through many dangers. Why is she giving up now? What happened to her carving knife? Why can't she cut her bonds with that? She doesn't have to cut the bonds that bind her hands. All she needs to do is cut her feet and crawl away. And now she doesn't even find the impetus to try and escape to find her mother?

This relates to my earlier comments about understanding the physical state Vanwe is in.

I won't repeat it again. I think we have that straight now.

Oh, and Vanwe does escape.... at Rivendell as per the plot outline. Fear not on that count.

Right now, in my opinion, this story lacks life. There is nothing to spice it up. We need suspense. Every story needs suspense. Right now, a reader can predict what's going to happen. But if Vanwe escapes for reasons within her character, the reader will be left in suspense. Will she find her way to Lespheria and tell them about Naiore, or will the love of her mother lead the rangers or Lespheria away? Will she run into her mother? And if Avanill captures her, will Avanill hang onto her or give her back to Ferny or Naiore? Right now Avanill is another stagnant character, through no fault of Everdawn. If Avanill captures Vanwe, there could be an interesting, maybe even humorous, flare of tempers between Ferny (who would of course pursue Vanwe in fear of Naiore) about who gets to keep Naiore's daughter.

All of what you suggest and descibe forms the next chapter for this RP that takes us from Bree to Imladris.

Predictability is the cost of preplanning events in a RP to the extent Barrow Downs encourages. Nature of the beast at this website.

Oh, and predict for me the ultimate ending of the RP?

Right now Vanwe is doing the opposite of what she's been doing for her entire life. All she's been concerned about is finding her parents. Now her mother has drugged her and abandoned her in the hands of a swine like Ferney. Why? Naiore's actions have not been explained, no motive has been identified. Why is she so frightened of her daughter? It seems that Vanwe is giving up too easily from what I've learned of her character.

I thought I'd covered off on these questions before. Certainly you have asked them and I had replied. I was unaware you still had questions.

Too early to say that Vanwe has given up. The RP has yet to move to a point where Vanwe has had the chance to decide all hope is lost.

As for Naiore's motivations, I suggest you read back through this discussion thread and the character profile and then specify where earlier elaborations leave unanswered questions so that I can respond.

Here's what I've said so far.

Naiore thinks Vanwe is a threat and a potential weapon being used against her by her foes. She thinks Vanwe is in league with Kaldir. When she learns of Menecin's survival, she'll think that Vanwe's father is also using her daughter.

She suspects of Vanwe what she knows herself to be capable of. That is treachery, deceit, murder... She knows Vanwe has been tracking her, and Naiore has only ever been hunted in the past by those who seek justice. That Vanwe was simply seeking her family doesn't occur to her and neither does the fact that everything Naiore does now to use and destroy her daughter will only achieve the end she wishes to avoid. Naiore is turing Vanwe into the weapon she thinks Vanwe already is.

A case of self-fulfilling prophecy.


So, no offense, but that does not mean that I have to agree. I think some patience and review of what has been discussed in the past would be of great assistance here.

Right now, I'm not editing anything nor posting anything until this confusion over what the Rangers wish to do regarding Barrold Ferney's house is resolved.

That is up to people other than me.