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Old 01-08-2005, 07:41 AM   #17
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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RD-SL-20:
Yes it would be good to have a third minds input here, I think. But I like to add, that it is the safer way in view of canon to skip hypotetical possibility to ofercome the girdle by treason.

§37a:
I am aware of the problem of internal statment made on an external fact. Therefore my suggestion in the last post. But as said there already, in view of an appendix talking about the external problems we had with the §, I can live with loosing the "somehow". Thus we should take:
Quote:
§37a (§20) There {they}[the dwarves] surprised Thingol upon {a}the hunt with but small company of arms and {Thingol was slain} <HoME11; The Tale of The Years {Somehow it must be}for they contrived it that Thingol {is} was lured outside or induced to go to war beyond his borders and {is} there {slain by the Dwarves.}> RD-SL-22 <TN the king and his company were all encircled with armed foes. ...
FD-SL-19:
This was the message of the Death of Mīm that did increase the wrath of the Naugrim. This point gnawed at me since we settled our discussion on it with the decision to skip any mention of it. I did recently reread the passage that Aiwendil and Maedhros used against it, and I will give it here to anyone to read:
Quote:
The Petty-dwarves. See also Note 7. The Eldar did not at first recognize these as Incarnates, for they seldom caught sight of them in clear light. They only became aware of their existence indeed when they attacked the Eldar by stealth at night, or if they caught them alone in wild places. The Eldar therefore thought that they were a kind of cunning two-legged animals living in caves, and they called them Levain tad-dail, or simply Tad-dail, and they hunted them. But after the Eldar had made the acquaintance of the Naugrim, the Tad-dail were recognized as a variety of Dwarves and were left alone. There were then few of them surviving, and they were very wary, and too fearful to attack any Elf, unless their hiding-places were approached too nearly. The Sindar gave them the names Nogotheg 'Dwarflet', or Nogoth niben 'Petty Dwarf'.
The great Dwarves despised the Petty-dwarves, who were (it is said) the descendants of Dwarves who had left or been driven our from the Communities, being deformed or undersized, or slothful and rebellious. But they still acknowledged their kinship and resented any injuries done to them. Indeed it was one of their grievances against the Eldar that they had hunted and slain their lesser kin, who had settled in Beleriand before the Elves came there. This grievance was set aside, when treaties were made between the Dwarves and the Sindar, in consideration of the plea that the Petty-dwarves had never declared themselves to the Eldar, nor presented any claims to land or habitations, but had at once attacked the newcomers in darkness and ambush. But the grievance still smouldered, as was later seen in the case of Mīm, the only Petty-dwarf who played a memorable part in the Annals of Beleriand.
The Noldor, for use in Quenya, translated these Sindarin names for the Petty-dwarves by Attalyar 'Bipeds', and Pikinaukor or Pitya-naukor.

Noe 7: The Dwarves were in a special position. They claimed to have known Beleriand before even the Eldar first came there; and there do appear to have been small groups dwelling furtively in the highlands west of Sirion from a very early date: they attacked and waylaid the Elves by stealth, and the Elves did not at first recognize them as Incarnates, but thought them to be some kind of cunning animal, and hunted them. By their own account they were fugitives, driven into the wilderness by their own kin further east, and later they were called the Noegyth Nibin or Petty-dwarves, for they had become smaller than the norm of their kind, and filled with hate for all other creatures. When the Elves met the powerful Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost, in the eastern side of the Mountains, they recognized them as Incarnates, for they had skill in many crafts, and learned the Elvish speech readily for purposes of traffic. At first the Elves were in doubt concerning them, believing them to be related to Orcs and creatures of Morgoth; but when they found that, though proud and unfriendly, they could be trusted to keep any treaties that they made, and did not molest those who left them in peace, they traded with them and let them come and go as they would. They no longer classed them as Moerbin, but neither did they ever reckon them as Celbin, calling them the Dornhoth ('the thrawn folk') or the Naugrim ('the stunted people').
The arrgument against the use of the Mīm's death as a further grievence to the dwarves was the passage "The great Dwarves despised the Petty-dwarves, ..." But what bothers me now is this passage "But the grievance still smouldered, as was later seen in the case of Mīm, ..." The grievance refered to is clearly that between the Great Dwarves and the Sindar and not that of the Petty-Dwarves against the Sindar. Thus what else can be meant by this passage other than that the death of Mīm brought back that grievance only laid at rest and never really healed and thus added to the wrath of the Dwarves of Nogrod against Thingol?

Respectfully
Findegil
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