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Old 07-20-2014, 08:04 AM   #44
denethorthefirst
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I dont think that Melians Incarnation in elvish form was all that voluntary: she was madly in love (goodbye free will and clear thinking) with thingol and incarnated herself for him, and in order to conceive.

Why do you think it unfair that she was allowed back to Valinor, why should the Valar prohibit her return? She didnt do anything evil as far as i know. You could say that she was abandoning Doriath ... but her Husband was now in Valinor (Halls of Mandos) so she was probably torn but ultimately decided to follow Thingol and await his re-embodiment. It is a bit questionable, but i can understand her.

"Sauron, until the destruction of his body in the Fall of Númenor, was able to appear fair and noble. But after he returned to Middle-earth after the Fall, he only looked terrible and evil. His spiritual state had become consumed with hate and a lust for domination, which could have been reflected physically, and maybe too the Valar took steps to deny him the ability to look less threatening, and so make it harder for him to deceive Elves, Men, and Dwarves ever after."

Sauron was chlothed until the destruction of Numenor, he only became incarnate AFTER his beautiful form was destroyed in the downfall. I dont think the Valar had anything to do with the change of his form. Its more like a general law in Ea that the form somehow reflects the spirit, and evil beings, after some point, were no longer able to "mask" their true nature and character.

Of course, some kind of body (or "clothing") for the spirit was necessary in order to manipulate the physical world, thats why most of the Ainur appear "clothed" in order to interact with the incarnates and the world. But i´m speculating about two different forms of incarnation not clothing. I think its obvious that a merely clothed Ainu would not be capable to conceive or impregnate incarnates (wether elves, men or orcs). I guess it could have been possible for Melian to have some kind of sexual intercourse with Thingol while being clothed, but i think she had to be fully incarnated in order to conceive.

Last edited by denethorthefirst; 07-20-2014 at 08:47 AM.
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