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Old 06-06-2017, 12:06 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post
There is nothing in the books that implies anything other than an exploitative relationship.
I agree, although still some differences between the two...

Morgoth became a nihilist, after realizing he could never obtain the Secret Fire and the power to create life, he got to the point of just trash and destroy everything. Even his own servants/orcs, he wanted everything destroyed.

It's stated Sauron never slipped that far into nihilism...he may have fell that far at some point, but not caring if Shelob eats a couple orcs, is quite a ways off from just throwing all your resources away to see the world burn.

It doesn't change the fact that every relationship between Sauron and any of his servants is purely exploitative. He may favor and show privilege to some like The Mouth and Witch-king, but it's still completely master-servant relationship. There's no care for their welfare, only they proved to be more useful pawns than orcs in his designs. This is a case of the kettle calling the pot black, but I think Denethor is right when he talks about Sauron's leadership:

Denethor laughed bitterly: "Nay, not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, if they are wise, Master Halfling. Or why should I sit here in my tower and think, and watch, and wait, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand."~The Siege of Gondor
Denethor isn't going to win any parenting of the year awards, but here is someone with actual parental relationships, saying he will even use his sons as pawns. Multiply that sentiment by thousands and you probably get close to how Sauron views his orcs, and any of his servants for that matter.

The more I've thought about the topic, the more I agree Sauron's creation of the Ring was his biggest mistake...or well maybe not the creation of the Ring itself, but his actions/decisions after losing it were. But then as Zigur argues, the creation of the One itself is what leads Sauron to the inevitable miscalculation.

Just brainstorming here...but the Ring was useless in it's aim to control the Elves, for the Elves perceived his designs and just took their rings off. It's a bittersweet victory to Galadriel, who realizes the destruction of the One will mean her small piece of "Valinor in Middle-earth" will fade, and that's the sacrifice Sauron probably never believed the Elves would be able to make.

The Ring was quite ineffective at controlling the Dwarves, because it's said Sauron was never able to fully understand the desires of Dwarves either, and therefor his attempts to control them through the Rings of Power was never complete, like it became with the 9 rings for Men.

He did achieve complete domination over the wills of the Nazgul. However, after the loss of the One, his lust to get it back, would gain him no increased advantage over the Nine. He possessed their Rings, and had complete control over their wills through his possession of the Nine. He didn't need the One to control them. And despite this fact, despite the fact that even losing in the Last Alliance, the cost of that war was far greater to Good than it was to Sauron. Sauron was defeated and lost the One, but the strength of the Noldor and Numenoreans was beaten down to a point they simply couldn't recover. By the War of the Ring, Men and Elves could no longer achieve victory against Sauron through strength of arms.

Maybe Sauron knew this, but his belief they have found the Ring and had the strength to use it against him, caused him to make some big mistakes. He was spending time and resources to reacquire an object that he no longer needed to achieve his purpose. And ironically, reacquire an object that wasn't that useful anyway, at least useful for what it was designed to do. It didn't help control the Elves, didn't help to control the Dwarves, and Men he already controlled because he held the Nine.
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