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08-18-2001, 05:07 PM

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Ad: Do balrogs have wings?

Ad teithad: Do Balrogs have wings?

Suilaid.

I agree that Balrogs look cooler with wings. Unfortunately, I have to admit the evidence points in the opposite direction.

Certainly in this quote the Balrog may have been incapacitated, as wing advocates argue, so it couldn't fly up.
[7] "I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place, and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin."
The Two Towers III 5 The White Rider

However, what about these two?
[6] "Then with a rush it leaped across the fissure."
The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

"It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge..."
The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

From this, it must be taken to mean that whether or not the Balrogs had wings, they couldn't fly.

But did they have wings? The impression one gets is that the cavern the Balrog the company meets is in is huge. In other words, if the Balrog has wings that spread "from wall to wall", it must be huge -- at least as big as a house.

As evidence, look at the Chamber of Marzabul in which the
[13] "...orcs one after another leaped into the chamber."
The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

...and

[14] "...clustered in the doorway."
The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

Obviously this opening is quite small.

Also, in HoME:

[15] "[the Balrog] strode to the fissure, no more than man-high yet terror seemed to go before it."
The History of Middle-earth Volume VII (The Treason of Isengard), X The Mines of Moria II: The Bridge

This can't be used as evidence as it is a rejected draft, but obviously Tolkien imagined the Balrogs as man-sized.

Which means the only alternative is that the Balrogs somehow created their wings. But Tolkien's final decision was that the Maiar who fell from grace and took bodies in Middle-Earth lost the ability to change their shape. It appears the only part of the Balrog that could change shape was it's shadow.

I use arguments extensively from the Encyclopedia of Arda. (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.../balrogs.html)www.glyphweb.com/arda/def...rogs.html)</a>

Abcened!

</p>

08-18-2001, 05:07 PM	#22
Ulumuri Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 1</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Ad: Do balrogs have wings? Ad teithad: Do Balrogs have wings? Suilaid. I agree that Balrogs look cooler with wings. Unfortunately, I have to admit the evidence points in the opposite direction. Certainly in this quote the Balrog may have been incapacitated, as wing advocates argue, so it couldn't fly up. [7] "I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place, and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin." The Two Towers III 5 The White Rider However, what about these two? [6] "Then with a rush it leaped across the fissure." The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm "It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge..." The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm From this, it must be taken to mean that whether or not the Balrogs had wings, they couldn't fly. But did they have wings? The impression one gets is that the cavern the Balrog the company meets is in is huge. In other words, if the Balrog has wings that spread "from wall to wall", it must be huge -- at least as big as a house. As evidence, look at the Chamber of Marzabul in which the [13] "...orcs one after another leaped into the chamber." The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm ...and [14] "...clustered in the doorway." The Fellowship of the Ring II 5 The Bridge of Khazad-dûm Obviously this opening is quite small. Also, in HoME: [15] "[the Balrog] strode to the fissure, no more than man-high yet terror seemed to go before it." The History of Middle-earth Volume VII (The Treason of Isengard), X The Mines of Moria II: The Bridge This can't be used as evidence as it is a rejected draft, but obviously Tolkien imagined the Balrogs as man-sized. Which means the only alternative is that the Balrogs somehow created their wings. But Tolkien's final decision was that the Maiar who fell from grace and took bodies in Middle-Earth lost the ability to change their shape. It appears the only part of the Balrog that could change shape was it's shadow. I use arguments extensively from the Encyclopedia of Arda. (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.../balrogs.html)www.glyphweb.com/arda/def...rogs.html)</a> Abcened! </p>