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Old 04-20-2009, 09:10 PM   #45
Aiwendil
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Findegil wrote:
Quote:
The Lay is in this part for sure the most detailed text we have. That makes in natrually to our basic text. From that we have two tasks: 1. we have to bring the text to the cannon version of the story line in generall and in detail and 2. we have to add details otherwise lost if possible.
True, but the caveat is that we have to do those things without changing Tolkien's words except for minimal alterations. Obviously, that's an ambiguous criterion, but in the end if we deem that a text would require more than these 'minimal alterations' to bring it into line with the established canon, then we are free (indeed, obliged) not to use it.

But here the situation is slightly different, as we could incorporate the details in question via a paragraph of prose. The question is whether Aran's (or any other) proposed lines of verse constitute an acceptable 'minimal alteration' of the note that suggests the story. If they do not, then we are constrained to using the prose passage.

It's a good point, though, that this is very similar to the issue we faced in 'Beren and Luthien' where we contrived some lines based on GA. I was hesitant about that too, but I suppose we have a precedent for accepting a few lines of verse, closely based on some prose source. So I'm ambivalent (as usual!).

In the event we do use the verse passage, I would suggest a few small emendations:

Quote:
But one they watched, __ warded sleepless,
was stern-visaged, strong, __ and in stature tall
as are Hithlum's men __ of the misty hills.
The cruel Orc-captain __ a cask did hale
of mighty work, __ and mocking set 185
that helm on the head __ of his hapless foe:
'twas Hador's helm, __ high and lofty,
the tormenting Orcs __ tauntingly scorned.
To the trunk of a tree __ trammelled he lay
in baleful bonds, __ yet bold-hearted 190
his mouth no mercy __ of Morgoth sued,
but defied his foes. __ Foully they smote him.
I changed 'stern-visored' back to 'stern-visaged' because it sounded strange and because now the helm isn't actually on his head until lines 185-186. I think (addressing Findegil's concern) Tolkien probably would've used the spelling 'cask' rather than 'casque'. And I fixed the alliteration in line 189, though I don't know if the antecedent of 'he' is sufficiently clear.
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