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Old 04-12-2008, 05:19 AM   #2
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Fascinating topic! Very interesting. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to come up with any good contributions right now, but I will just say what I can think of right at the moment.

The connection of water-music is overall apparent in Tolkien's works, and it doesn't even have to be necessary personalised by anyone or anything. We know from Ainulindalë that the Ainur and Children of Ilúvatar praised water the most of all... materials, because the echo of the Music remained the strongest in it. And so, despite water is Ulmo's "invention", it's possible that anyone/anything connected with it has similar attributes.

Ultimately, this is the question of Goldberry's identity, of course. If she has anything to do with water, is the "River-daughter", or the daughter of a (the?) River-woman (Adventures of TB), then her connection with the water is undeniable. Now, what does that mean? Is she some "byproduct" of water? Is she to be counted among the strange beasts living in the water? Is she some spirit sent there specifically by Ulmo, similar to the Ents sent by Yavanna? Is she simply a "spirit of the outside" (this strange kind of... creatures???) who joined the water of her own free will? Now she seems to be begotten in the already existing world, from water - so the most probable of these options would be the first I named.

The well-known heretic David Day in his "Tolkien's Bestiary", classifies Goldberry without a twinkling of an eye as a Maia of Ulmo (and he classifies Tom as Maia, too ). However, even this theory falls if we hold to the interpretation of the words "River-daughter" (or "Daughter of the River-woman") as that she was "begotten by water". However, what goes for Goldberry does not necessarily have to apply for her mother, the River-woman. However, the explicite referrences to River-woman could be eventually thrown away as an invention of the Hobbit folklore, and the fact that any River-woman really existed as concrete individual can be ignored - and we'll be back just at the mysterious term "River-daughter".

Well, these are more like questions to pose to think of, but not questions; however, this is what this is about - and the best I can come up with at the moment, anyway. So, I would like to see what others think
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
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