[Findegil]

After reading through all this thread, I hesitated long to put my post here. But in the end what it deals with depends on what was discussed here. So there seems to be no better palce for it.

When I read the conclusion of this thread rightly, the decission was to try not to specify any number of Balrogs, but to work with assumption that 7 existed and 3 were killed in the Battle of the Powers. When I started working with the project, I thought we would recone with 7 Balrogs during the War of Jewels. But to this later more.

A German corrospondent asked my how many Balrogs ever existed. Therefore I tried to translate the passage from Annals of Aman* as amanded:

§50 It came to pass that at last the gates of Utumno were broken and its halls unroofed, and Melkor took refuge in the uttermost pit. Thence, seeing that all was lost (for that time), he sent forth on a sudden a his Balrogs, the last of his servants that remained faithfull to him, and they assailed the standard of Manwë, as it were a tide of flame. But they were withered in the wind of his wrath and slain with the lightning of his sword; and Melkor stood at last alone.

Ofcause with the famous footnote. While translating this I found (porberbly due tomy bad english) that the second sentence of the passage might be read figurativly. Please correct me if I am worng! Could 'But they were withered in the wind of his wrath and slain with the lightning of his sword;' be understood as meaning 'It was as if they were withered and slain'?
Probably you already guesed that this would mean that non of the 7 Balrogs were dead in that battle.

Independent of this I think with only 4 Balrogs I would like to reconsider changing Glorfindels Balrog to a Demon suggested by The Peoples of Middle-earht (HoME 12), chapter XIII, Last Writings, Glorfindel. Tolkien writes of Glorfindel:

... a chieftain of Gondolin, who in the pass of Cristhorn ('Eagle-cleft') fought with a Balrog [> Demon], whom he slew at the cost of his own life.

Then later:[Quote]... Glorfindel had sacrificed his life in defending the fugitives from the wreck of Gondolin against a Demon out of Thangorodrim,^10 and so enabling Tuor and Idril daughter to Turgon ....[/qoute]The footnote 10 reads:

10 In the margin, and written at the same time as the text, my father note: 'The duel of Glorfindel and the Demon may need revision.'

This would leave us with 3 Balrogs alive in the War of Wrath (2 killed, one hidding in Moria). To make this more clear, here is how I would deal with taht passage:

... It was Tuor's thought that they had fallen in with one of {Melko}[Morgoth]'s ranging companies, and he feared no more than a sharp brush in the dark, yet he sent the women and sick around him rearward and joined his men to Galdor's, and there was an affray upon the perilous path. But now rocks fell from above, and things looked ill, for they did grievous hurt; but matters seemed to Tuor yet worse when the noise of arms came from the rear, and tidings were said to him by a man of the Swallow that Glorfindel was ill bested by men from behind, and that a FG-C-9.8 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon out of Thangorodrim> was with them.
... Already the half had passed the perilous way and the falls of {Thorn Sir}[Thoron Sîr], when that FG-C-11.2 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon> that was with the rearward foe leapt with great might on certain lofty rocks that stood into the path on the left side upon the lip of the chasm, and thence with a leap of fury he was past Glorfindel's men and among the women and the sick in front, lashing with his whip of flame. Then Glorfindel leapt forward upon him and his golden armour gleamed strangely in the moon, and he hewed at that demon that it leapt again upon a great boulder and Glorfindel after. Now there was a deadly combat upon that high rock above the folk; and these, pressed behind and hindered ahead, were grown so close that well nigh all could see, yet was it over ere Glorfindel's men could leap to his side. The ardour of Glorfindel drove that FG-C-11.4 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon> from point to point, and his mail fended him from its whip and claw. Now had he beaten a heavy swinge upon its iron helm, now hewn off the creature's whip-arm at the elbow. Then sprang the FG-C-11.6 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon> in the torment of his pain and fear full at Glorfindel, who stabbed like a dart of a snake; but he found only a shoulder, and was grappled, and they swayed to a fall upon the crag-top. Then Glorfindel's left hand sought a dirk, and this he thrust up that it pierced the FG-C-11.8 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon>'s belly nigh his own face (for that {demon}it was double his stature); and it shrieked, and fell backwards from the rock, and falling clutched Glorfindel's yellow locks beneath his cap, and those twain fell into the abyss.
Now was this a very grievous thing, for Glorfindel was most dearly beloved − and lo! the dint of their fall echoed about the hills, and the abyss of {Thorn Sir}[Thoron Sîr] rang. Then at the death-cry of the FG-C-11.9 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon> the Orcs before and behind wavered and were slain or fled far away, and {Thorndor}[Thorondor] himself, a mighty bird, descended to the abyss and FG-C-12 {brought up the body of Glorfindel} <Q30 bore up Glorfindel's body>; but the FG-C-12.2 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon> lay, and the water of {Thorn Sir}[Thoron Sîr] ran black for many a day far below in {Tumladin}[Tumladen]. FG-C12.5 <Q30 And the birds of {Thorndor}[Thorondor] stooped upon the Orcs and drove them shrieking back; and all were slain or cast into the deeps, and rumour of the escape from Gondolin came not until long after to Morgoth's ears.>
Still do the Eldar say when they see good fighting at great odds of power against a fury of evil: ‘Alas! 'Tis Glorfindel and the FG-C-12.7 {Balrog}<Last Writings Demon>’, and their hearts are still sore for that fair one of the {Noldoli}[Noldor].

Seeing that Tolkien himself has addressed the Balrog already in FoG as 'demon', I think that it adds to ambigous Balrog emandations to leave it open if this is a Balrog or not. From the discription especially the 'whip of flame', one could gues that this Demon is a Balrog, but it also could be a diffrent kind of monster. Thus we would again give the reader the freeness to decide for himself.

Two further points cmae up during my research that we already mist after the decision taken inthis thread:
In our chapter Of the coming of the Elves we took up:

§50 {It}Thus it came to pass that at last the gates of Utumno were broken and its halls unroofed, and Melkor took refuge in the uttermost pit. Thence, seeing that all was lost (for that time), he sent forth on a sudden a host of Balrogs, the last of his servants that remained, and they assailed the standard of Manwë, as it were a tide of flame. But they were withered in the wind of his wrath and slain with the lightning of his sword; and Melkor stood at last alone.>

I think we should change this and proberbly add also the footnote:

§50 {It}Thus it came to pass that at last the gates of Utumno were broken and its halls unroofed, and Melkor took refuge in the uttermost pit. Thence, seeing that all was lost (for that time), he sent forth on a sudden a CE-EX-12.5 {host}<AAm, late scribbeld changes his> of Balrogs, the last of his servants that remained <AAm, late scribbeld changes faithfull to him [Footnote: There should not be supposed more than 3 or at most 7 ever existed.]>, and they assailed the standard of Manwë, as it were a tide of flame. But they were withered in the wind of his wrath and slain with the lightning of his sword; and Melkor stood at last alone.>

And then we have the War of Wrath, were we must change the reference to 'same few that fled':

VE-13.04 <Sil77 The meeting of the hosts of the West and of the North is named the Great Battle, the Battle Terrible, and the War of Wrath. > <AB2 The waters of Sirion lay between the hosts; and long and bitterly they contested the passage. But at last [Eönwë] crossed Sirion and the hosts of Morgoth were driven as leaves, and the Balrogs were utterly destroyed> <BT, save VE-13.045 {some few that}they fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth> , <AB1 and Morgoth[‘s army] fled to Angband pursued by the hosts of [Eönwë].>

Respectfuly
Findegil