The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Findegil · 04-25-2018, 11:10 AM

Hello everybody, it is again a very long time since the last posts in this part of the Forum. As ArcusCalion utter in private communication the wish to go on with the project, I can’t resist that urge any longer and so I think it its best to start up again with the discussion of the history of Galadriel and Celeborn, since they are key-figures in the history of the early Second Age in Middle-Earth.
I still work from the collection of source texts given in the first post of this thread and still use the reference number A) to K) established in that post. It might be necessary to add farther sources. (I have seen Galins comment about ‘certain statements from Words, Phrases, and Passages’, but I did not yet look up what he meant by this.) If it becomes necessary, I would add such sources at their chronological place and indicate them with a second letter in small type.
But for now with the sources as collected, I come to the following corrected and extended timeline listing:
- Galadriel is born in Tirion
- Celeborn is born to the son of Elmo, brother of Thingol
- Feanor covets Galadriels hair / unfreindlines between them
- Galadriel plans to go to Middlee-earth, dwells for a time in Aqualondë. She was prepairing the question to Manwë for leave, when the rebellion of the Noldor started.
- Rebellion of the Noldor, Galadiriel is the only women among the debating princes
- Kinslaying: Galadriel fights Feanor in defense of the Swanhaven
- leads the Noldor across the ice
- She goes to Doriath to dwell with Melian
- Meets Celeborn and falls in love / marries
- visits Nargothrond
- journeys over the mountains with Celeborn (text D, but see next point)
- Galadriel crosses the Hitheaglir alone (text C, while Celeborn returns to Doriath, see next point)
- Celeborn escapes the fall of Doriath (text H, probably we have to add this in the appropriate chapter)
- Galadriel hears late of the summons of Eönwë (text K) and returns to Beleriand (where we would suppose Celeborn is meet again).
- accepts proudly the ban set on her return by the Valar partly because Celeborn is not willing to leave Middle-earth (text A & H)
- ‘In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women.’ (text B)
- Galadriel crosses Ered Lindon with Celeborn and they become Lord and Lady of all the Elves of Eriador. (text A & H)
- Galadriel goes together with Celeborn to Eregion (text A & H)
- Galadriel has contact to Lorien (text H)
- revolt of Celebrimbor, Galadriel leaves Eregion and goes to Lorien, Celeborn stayes in Eregion (text H)
- The War of Sauron against Eregion: Celebron leads a sortie and joins his forces to Elronds, they establish Imladris. Galadriel remains in Lorien. (text H)
- After the War Galadriel joins Celeborn in Imladris (text H), the first White Council is held in Imladris. Celeborn and Galadriel depart to Lorien to ‘fortified it against any further attempts of Sauron to cross the Anduin.’ They ‘passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien.’ (text E)
- Galadriel goes then to Lindon, since ‘Celeborn rejoined Galadriel in Lindon’. (text E)
- Celeborn and Galadriel return to Lorien (text E, ‘To Lórien Celeborn and Galadriel returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age’, first time after the White Council, second time here)
- After a sojourn in Imladris they both go to Belfalas. (text H, this is debatable, but otherwise we have no idea where the couple staid at the end of the Second and start of the Thrid Age.)
- ‘But during the Third Age Galadriel became filled with foreboding, and with Celeborn she journeyed to Lórien and stayed there long with Amroth’. (text E)
- ‘After long journeys of enquiry in Rhovanion, from Gondor and the borders of Mordor to Thranduil in the north, Celeborn and Galadriel passed over the mountains to Imladris, and there dwelt for many years’. (text E)
- In 1981 TA Galadriel and Celeborn return to Lorien after the loss of Amroth and take up the rule there. (text E and text H)

Up to the end of the First Age this was nearly fully discussed. Only an addition to the effect of Celeborn being mentioned during the Fall of Doriath is new.
If the rest will be fully covered by our text is not so clear, but we should discuss here what our assumptions are and use that as a kind of guideline. That said we must as a matter of fact not come to full agreement about the timeline list, even so that would be great. If the texts we produce can be ambiguity enough to allow all timeline list we sought possible that is fully sufficient. But for that we need of course to know what are the timeline lists look like that each of us has in mind.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: As often before my drafts do as yet not fully cover every development made in this post. But I will not start to change them, before we did not come to some kind of conclusion here. Anyhow, even if I would not have to change anything, still all changes or text constructions in the private drafts have to be numbered and commented and the texts reduced to copy right friendly amount before posting. So please don’t calculate with a fast upcoming of that material.

04-25-2018, 11:10 AM	#18
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,694	Hello everybody, it is again a very long time since the last posts in this part of the Forum. As ArcusCalion utter in private communication the wish to go on with the project, I can’t resist that urge any longer and so I think it its best to start up again with the discussion of the history of Galadriel and Celeborn, since they are key-figures in the history of the early Second Age in Middle-Earth. I still work from the collection of source texts given in the first post of this thread and still use the reference number A) to K) established in that post. It might be necessary to add farther sources. (I have seen Galins comment about ‘certain statements from Words, Phrases, and Passages’, but I did not yet look up what he meant by this.) If it becomes necessary, I would add such sources at their chronological place and indicate them with a second letter in small type. But for now with the sources as collected, I come to the following corrected and extended timeline listing: - Galadriel is born in Tirion - Celeborn is born to the son of Elmo, brother of Thingol - Feanor covets Galadriels hair / unfreindlines between them - Galadriel plans to go to Middlee-earth, dwells for a time in Aqualondë. She was prepairing the question to Manwë for leave, when the rebellion of the Noldor started. - Rebellion of the Noldor, Galadiriel is the only women among the debating princes - Kinslaying: Galadriel fights Feanor in defense of the Swanhaven - leads the Noldor across the ice - She goes to Doriath to dwell with Melian - Meets Celeborn and falls in love / marries - visits Nargothrond - journeys over the mountains with Celeborn (text D, but see next point) - Galadriel crosses the Hitheaglir alone (text C, while Celeborn returns to Doriath, see next point) - Celeborn escapes the fall of Doriath (text H, probably we have to add this in the appropriate chapter) - Galadriel hears late of the summons of Eönwë (text K) and returns to Beleriand (where we would suppose Celeborn is meet again). - accepts proudly the ban set on her return by the Valar partly because Celeborn is not willing to leave Middle-earth (text A & H) - ‘In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women.’ (text B) - Galadriel crosses Ered Lindon with Celeborn and they become Lord and Lady of all the Elves of Eriador. (text A & H) - Galadriel goes together with Celeborn to Eregion (text A & H) - Galadriel has contact to Lorien (text H) - revolt of Celebrimbor, Galadriel leaves Eregion and goes to Lorien, Celeborn stayes in Eregion (text H) - The War of Sauron against Eregion: Celebron leads a sortie and joins his forces to Elronds, they establish Imladris. Galadriel remains in Lorien. (text H) - After the War Galadriel joins Celeborn in Imladris (text H), the first White Council is held in Imladris. Celeborn and Galadriel depart to Lorien to ‘fortified it against any further attempts of Sauron to cross the Anduin.’ They ‘passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien.’ (text E) - Galadriel goes then to Lindon, since ‘Celeborn rejoined Galadriel in Lindon’. (text E) - Celeborn and Galadriel return to Lorien (text E, ‘To Lórien Celeborn and Galadriel returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age’, first time after the White Council, second time here) - After a sojourn in Imladris they both go to Belfalas. (text H, this is debatable, but otherwise we have no idea where the couple staid at the end of the Second and start of the Thrid Age.) - ‘But during the Third Age Galadriel became filled with foreboding, and with Celeborn she journeyed to Lórien and stayed there long with Amroth’. (text E) - ‘After long journeys of enquiry in Rhovanion, from Gondor and the borders of Mordor to Thranduil in the north, Celeborn and Galadriel passed over the mountains to Imladris, and there dwelt for many years’. (text E) - In 1981 TA Galadriel and Celeborn return to Lorien after the loss of Amroth and take up the rule there. (text E and text H) Up to the end of the First Age this was nearly fully discussed. Only an addition to the effect of Celeborn being mentioned during the Fall of Doriath is new. If the rest will be fully covered by our text is not so clear, but we should discuss here what our assumptions are and use that as a kind of guideline. That said we must as a matter of fact not come to full agreement about the timeline list, even so that would be great. If the texts we produce can be ambiguity enough to allow all timeline list we sought possible that is fully sufficient. But for that we need of course to know what are the timeline lists look like that each of us has in mind. Respectfully Findegil P.S.: As often before my drafts do as yet not fully cover every development made in this post. But I will not start to change them, before we did not come to some kind of conclusion here. Anyhow, even if I would not have to change anything, still all changes or text constructions in the private drafts have to be numbered and commented and the texts reduced to copy right friendly amount before posting. So please don’t calculate with a fast upcoming of that material.