[gandalf85]

Regarding the debate about flying ships: As it is currently laid out, the paragraph about flying ships and the passage about the Eldar leaving do not necessarily refer to the same time period. The paragraph about flying ships could only refer to aircraft of modern times since no aircraft are present in any tale from the third age. But if it refers to modern times, I don't think it works as it stands. The text states that the aircraft "came also to the lands of the new world, and to the East of the old world." The new world must refer to the Americas and the old world refers to Europe and Asia. The first transatlantic flights actually went from the Americas to Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transa...lantic_flights). There was a popular contest over who could do it first and it was discussed in newspapers, so presumably many people knew about it. This makes the statement "and they took these mariners of the air to be gods, and some of the Númenóreans were content that this should be so." unbelievable. I doubt people viewed the first aviators as gods. Furthermore, the text states that it is because of these flights that we discovered the Earth was round, but we knew the Earth was round around the 3rd century BC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth). I think this paragraph is highly problematic since it so clearly contradicts actual history. I would be OK with allusions like this to the "distant future" if they were accurate. I personally think it should be removed.

Other than that, I have a few comments:

1) The term "Powers" is used to refer to the Valar. Is there a rule for when we use "Powers" or "Valar" or are they used interchangeably? I am sorry if this was discussed in another thread; if so, just point me to it.

2) I propose a change when we introduce Pharazon for the first time:

AK-SL-02 <HoME 12; The History of the Akallabêth; Note on the marriage of Míriel and Pharazôn; text c {For} Pharazôn son of Gimilkhâd {had become} [was] even more restless and eager for wealth and power than his father.

This is our first time meeting Pharazon, so using "had become" is awkward. It implies we already knew about him.

3) I am confused about the section after AK-SL-03:

For Elentir Amandil’s brother loved her, and she had turned her heart to him, and it was known that soon they would be betrothed.

Who is the "her" referring to? Unless I'm missing something, the text is unclear.

4) There appears to be the same thing said twice here:

But when {Zimrahil}[Zimraphel] saw Pharazôn in the splendour of his young manhood come riding {[? }in{] .......... Suddenly}suddenly {Zimrahil’s}[her] heart turned towards him. And when Pharazôn was greeted upon the steps of the house their eyes met {.......... }and they were abashed.> AK-SL-05 <HoME 12; The History of the Akallabêth; Note on the marriage of Míriel and Pharazôn; text a {but}And when first she saw Pharazôn her eyes and her heart were turned to him, for his beauty, and for his wealth also. But he went away{(15)} and she remained unwed.>

"Her heart was turned to him" appears twice. I think we should combine them like this:

But when {Zimrahil}[Zimraphel] saw Pharazôn in the splendour of his young manhood come riding {[? }in{] .......... Suddenly}suddenly {Zimrahil’s}[her] <AK-SL-04.5: moved from below eyes and her heart were turned to him, for his beauty, and for his wealth also> heart turned towards him. And when Pharazôn was greeted upon the steps of the house their eyes met {.......... }and they were abashed.> AK-SL-05 <HoME 12; The History of the Akallabêth; Note on the marriage of Míriel and Pharazôn; text a {but} {And when first she saw Pharazôn her eyes and her heart were turned to him, for his beauty, and for his wealth also.} But he went away{(15)} and she remained unwed.>

So her eyes and heart turns to him when he arrives. Then their eyes meet and he was abashed. But he went away and she remained unwed. I think this flows better.

4) A small grammatical fix:

And sitting upon his carven throne in the city of Armenelos in the glory of his power, AK-SL-08 <HoME 12; The History of the Akallabêth; Note on the marriage of Míriel and Pharazôn; text a and he found it too little to appease

The second "and" should be removed:

And sitting upon his carven throne in the city of Armenelos in the glory of his power, AK-SL-08 <HoME 12; The History of the Akallabêth; Note on the marriage of Míriel and Pharazôn; text a {and} he found it too little to appease

5) I think this addition makes the text flow better (it is from the third version of the Fall of Numenor -- what Christopher Tolkien calls FN III -- in HoME 9)

Then Ar-Pharazôn, being besotted, and walking under the shadow of death, for his span was drawing towards its end, hearkened to Sauron; and he began to ponder in his heart how he might make war upon the Valar. <AK-FN-01 HoME 9; The third version of the Fall of Numenor Therefore at his command the Numenoreans made a great armament; and their might and skill had grown exceedingly in those days, for they had in these matters the aid of Sauron.> <AK-SL-08 <HoME 12; The History of the Akallabêth; Note on the marriage of Míriel and Pharazôn; text aHe was long preparing this design, and he spoke not openly of it, yet it could not be hidden from all.

Without this there is no explicit statement that Ar-Pharazon is preparing an armament.

6) I have a question about the usage of you/your vs. thou/thy. As an example, in a speech by Amandil:

But for {you}[thou] and {your}[thy] folk, my son, I counsel that you should prepare yourselves other ships, and put aboard all such things as your hearts cannot bear to part with...

The usage is mixed here. What are the rules for when you/your is used and when thou/thy is used?

7) I think we should remove any instances of the words sounding strange in the Lost Road section. The reason they sound strange is because of the frame narrative of traveling back in time. I found one section where it was not removed:

'Atarinya {tye-meláne}[tyë-melinyë]' said {Herendil}[Elendur] suddenly, and clasping his father's knees he laid his {[?}head there{]} and wept. AK-SL-29.5<editorial addition moved from above Atarinya {tye-meláne}[tyë-melinyë], my father, I love thee: the words sounded strange, but sweet: they smote {Elendil}[Isildur]'s heart.

I don't see why Isildur would find the words strange. I propose we change this to:

'Atarinya {tye-meláne}[tyë-melinyë]' said {Herendil}[Elendur] suddenly, and clasping his father's knees he laid his {[?}head there{]} and wept. AK-SL-29.5b<editorial addition moved from above Atarinya {tye-meláne}[tyë-melinyë], my father, I love thee: the words {sounded strange, but sweet: they} smote {Elendil}[Isildur]'s heart.

8) I propose another addition from FN III:

the fleets of Ar-Pharazôn came up out of the deeps of the sea and encompassed Avallónë and all the isle of Eressëa, and the Eldar mourned, for the light of the setting sun was cut off by the cloud of the Númenóreans.

There is an extra detail in FN III:

the fleets of Ar-Pharazôn came up out of the deeps of the sea and encompassed Avallónë and all the isle of Eressëa, and the Eldar mourned <AK-FN-02 HoME 9; The third version of the Fall of Numenor and sickness came upon them>, for the light of the setting sun was cut off by the cloud of the Númenóreans.

9) Another small detail from FN III:

[QUOTE Then Manwë upon the Mountain called upon Ilúvatar, and for that time the Valar laid down their government ...[/QUOTE]

With the addition:

<B]AK-FN-02 HoME 9; The third version of the Fall of Numenor[/B] But the heart of Manwe was sorrowful and dismayed, and {Then Manwë} upon the Mountain [he] called upon Ilúvatar, and for that time the Valar laid down their government

Sorry if these additions do not follow the rules of the project, I read through them and I think I followed the rules. These additions are details from an older work which weren't explicitly rejected by Tolkien, do not contradict anything, and make the text flow better in my opinion.